Comments on: Of course I’m tolerant of gays (unless my kids are in the room) http://thecurvature.com/2007/08/15/of-course-im-tolerant-of-gays-unless-my-kids-are-in-the-room/ Sun, 05 Feb 2012 14:47:57 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Michelle http://thecurvature.com/2007/08/15/of-course-im-tolerant-of-gays-unless-my-kids-are-in-the-room/#comment-1136 Michelle Tue, 21 Aug 2007 04:13:33 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/2007/08/15/of-course-im-tolerant-of-gays-unless-my-kids-are-in-the-room/#comment-1136 It's sad that trying to get gay marriage up has resulted in a reactionary backlash with several states passing referenda against it. I hope you are right that there is light at the end of the tunnel. It’s sad that trying to get gay marriage up has resulted in a reactionary backlash with several states passing referenda against it. I hope you are right that there is light at the end of the tunnel.

]]> By: Cara http://thecurvature.com/2007/08/15/of-course-im-tolerant-of-gays-unless-my-kids-are-in-the-room/#comment-1108 Cara Thu, 16 Aug 2007 15:06:35 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/2007/08/15/of-course-im-tolerant-of-gays-unless-my-kids-are-in-the-room/#comment-1108 <p>Definitely an interesting point, Roy. I would certainly find it weird if my teacher said to me "homosexuality is perfectly acceptable!" But there are definitely implicit ways to suggest that without coming right out and saying it, and I personally interpreted it as teaching from a perspective that homosexuality is acceptable. And I would argue that schools teach that heterosexuality is acceptable on a daily basis, and without a doubt teach from a perspective of it being acceptable (which, of course, it is).</p> <p>Maybe you're right that it's a question of how people interpreted the question. But we also have to look at how the numbers would have turned out if the question was "is it okay to teach that heterosexuality is acceptable" in schools. I'm willing to bet an awful lot of money that you wouldn't see nearly the kind of hesitance and hair-splitting in that situation.</p> Definitely an interesting point, Roy. I would certainly find it weird if my teacher said to me “homosexuality is perfectly acceptable!” But there are definitely implicit ways to suggest that without coming right out and saying it, and I personally interpreted it as teaching from a perspective that homosexuality is acceptable. And I would argue that schools teach that heterosexuality is acceptable on a daily basis, and without a doubt teach from a perspective of it being acceptable (which, of course, it is).

Maybe you’re right that it’s a question of how people interpreted the question. But we also have to look at how the numbers would have turned out if the question was “is it okay to teach that heterosexuality is acceptable” in schools. I’m willing to bet an awful lot of money that you wouldn’t see nearly the kind of hesitance and hair-splitting in that situation.

]]> By: Roy http://thecurvature.com/2007/08/15/of-course-im-tolerant-of-gays-unless-my-kids-are-in-the-room/#comment-1107 Roy Thu, 16 Aug 2007 13:45:17 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/2007/08/15/of-course-im-tolerant-of-gays-unless-my-kids-are-in-the-room/#comment-1107 I'd love to see how the survey was done in this case, because the wording is really weird, as quoted. If someone asked me if Christianity should be taught in school without teaching whether it was "right or wrong" I'd pick that over "Schools should teach that Christianity is acceptable." Those two options aren't really asking the same thing, though. I prefer the wording of the first option- the idea being that you teach about X without passing a value judgement on it. You neither endorse or discourage X. Having seen that option, the implication I would take away is that the second option is meant to read "Endorse X as being right, not wrong." I don't know. Maybe I'm being too optimistic? I’d love to see how the survey was done in this case, because the wording is really weird, as quoted. If someone asked me if Christianity should be taught in school without teaching whether it was “right or wrong” I’d pick that over “Schools should teach that Christianity is acceptable.” Those two options aren’t really asking the same thing, though. I prefer the wording of the first option- the idea being that you teach about X without passing a value judgement on it. You neither endorse or discourage X. Having seen that option, the implication I would take away is that the second option is meant to read “Endorse X as being right, not wrong.”

I don’t know. Maybe I’m being too optimistic?

]]> By: bonnie http://thecurvature.com/2007/08/15/of-course-im-tolerant-of-gays-unless-my-kids-are-in-the-room/#comment-1105 bonnie Wed, 15 Aug 2007 22:00:07 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/2007/08/15/of-course-im-tolerant-of-gays-unless-my-kids-are-in-the-room/#comment-1105 Oh... you know, just another day in America. Several countries in Europe have passed governmental recognition of gay marriage or partnership benefits and several more are working on it, because (to quote a line from a 2005 BBC article) "most people in Europe think that not recognizing gay relationships with equal rights is an archaic idea". And here, most parents think its not appropriate to discuss our existence with children at all. Nice. I'm moving the UK. so tired of this fight. who am I fighting against? the government or the vast majority of people around me? -b Oh… you know, just another day in America. Several countries in Europe have passed governmental recognition of gay marriage or partnership benefits and several more are working on it, because (to quote a line from a 2005 BBC article) “most people in Europe think that not recognizing gay relationships with equal rights is an archaic idea”. And here, most parents think its not appropriate to discuss our existence with children at all. Nice.

I’m moving the UK. so tired of this fight. who am I fighting against? the government or the vast majority of people around me?

-b

]]> By: kissmypineapple http://thecurvature.com/2007/08/15/of-course-im-tolerant-of-gays-unless-my-kids-are-in-the-room/#comment-1104 kissmypineapple Wed, 15 Aug 2007 19:37:11 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/2007/08/15/of-course-im-tolerant-of-gays-unless-my-kids-are-in-the-room/#comment-1104 Wellie, I think you hit the nail on the head there. Wellie, I think you hit the nail on the head there.

]]> By: mary http://thecurvature.com/2007/08/15/of-course-im-tolerant-of-gays-unless-my-kids-are-in-the-room/#comment-1102 mary Wed, 15 Aug 2007 18:01:37 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/2007/08/15/of-course-im-tolerant-of-gays-unless-my-kids-are-in-the-room/#comment-1102 just wanted to let you know i'm still reading! just wanted to let you know i’m still reading!

]]> By: Cara http://thecurvature.com/2007/08/15/of-course-im-tolerant-of-gays-unless-my-kids-are-in-the-room/#comment-1101 Cara Wed, 15 Aug 2007 17:36:35 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/2007/08/15/of-course-im-tolerant-of-gays-unless-my-kids-are-in-the-room/#comment-1101 Yeah, Kristen, I did briefly mention that in the post, and I've thought about it more, since. We do have to consider that the LGBTQ population is small, compared with the entire population (most estimates end up around the 10% mark, but I've seen widely varying numbers). Then, we have to acknowledge that not all LGBTQ people are in relationships, and who even knows if most are. Then we cut that number down to a third or a quarter. That's a pretty small slice. We have to cut that down even <i>smaller</i>, since gay parents being open about their sexuality is fairly new, and therefore most couples with children probably have children younger than middle school or high school age. If I had to pull a number out of my ass, I'd have to say that only 1% or less of the respondents were gay themselves. But math has never been my strong area. More interesting, I think, is the fact that most of these parents have to at least know someone who is gay, and a hell of a lot probably also know someone who is gay and a parent! Yeah, Kristen, I did briefly mention that in the post, and I’ve thought about it more, since. We do have to consider that the LGBTQ population is small, compared with the entire population (most estimates end up around the 10% mark, but I’ve seen widely varying numbers). Then, we have to acknowledge that not all LGBTQ people are in relationships, and who even knows if most are. Then we cut that number down to a third or a quarter. That’s a pretty small slice. We have to cut that down even smaller, since gay parents being open about their sexuality is fairly new, and therefore most couples with children probably have children younger than middle school or high school age. If I had to pull a number out of my ass, I’d have to say that only 1% or less of the respondents were gay themselves. But math has never been my strong area.

More interesting, I think, is the fact that most of these parents have to at least know someone who is gay, and a hell of a lot probably also know someone who is gay and a parent!

]]> By: wellie http://thecurvature.com/2007/08/15/of-course-im-tolerant-of-gays-unless-my-kids-are-in-the-room/#comment-1100 wellie Wed, 15 Aug 2007 16:17:33 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/2007/08/15/of-course-im-tolerant-of-gays-unless-my-kids-are-in-the-room/#comment-1100 i believe the real fear here is that, in exposing children to even the <i>idea</i> of homosexuality and/or alternative lifestyles, that somehow their kids will 'catch the gay.' and unfortunately, as these sad statistics show, many parents believe that keeping their children uninformed will somehow help them. *shakes head* i believe the real fear here is that, in exposing children to even the idea of homosexuality and/or alternative lifestyles, that somehow their kids will ‘catch the gay.’ and unfortunately, as these sad statistics show, many parents believe that keeping their children uninformed will somehow help them. *shakes head*

]]> By: Kristen http://thecurvature.com/2007/08/15/of-course-im-tolerant-of-gays-unless-my-kids-are-in-the-room/#comment-1097 Kristen Wed, 15 Aug 2007 15:35:30 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/2007/08/15/of-course-im-tolerant-of-gays-unless-my-kids-are-in-the-room/#comment-1097 Great post. I moved to Montgomery County a few years ago and one of the reasons I chose this area rather than the other DC suburbs was that it seemed to have more progressive politics and a more diverse population (okay, and more interracial couples...after living in the south for 3 years, I was really interested in not being stared at on a daily basis). When I first heard about the idea, I was concerned that the curriculum might be more harmful, but from what I've read and learned about the new information it does seem very honest and non-judgmental. Hopefully, it will make a difference for the children growing up LGBT in our community. And if I can indulge in a little unfounded idealism - create a starting point for other school districts. <i>Only 8% of high school parents and 4% of middle school parents think that schools should teach that homosexuality is acceptable?</i> This statistic also disturbed me because aren't there at least a small percentage of LGBT parents? I vaguely recall that somewhere between a quarter and a third of gay and lesbian couples have a child. I don't know what percentage of the parent population that makes up, but one would assume that at least a few of those percentage points belong to LGBT parents. So its even worse than we thought. <i>I imagine (read: really, really hope) that if you were to survey these same parents, asking them how many of them think that homosexuality is acceptable, you would walk away with higher numbers.</i> I'm less optimistic about this one because of the word "acceptable". I think we've progressed as a country to the point where the old guard doesn't think its acceptable to harm LGBT, but not to the point where being LGBT is acceptable. Please tell me I'm wrong?! Great post. I moved to Montgomery County a few years ago and one of the reasons I chose this area rather than the other DC suburbs was that it seemed to have more progressive politics and a more diverse population (okay, and more interracial couples…after living in the south for 3 years, I was really interested in not being stared at on a daily basis). When I first heard about the idea, I was concerned that the curriculum might be more harmful, but from what I’ve read and learned about the new information it does seem very honest and non-judgmental. Hopefully, it will make a difference for the children growing up LGBT in our community. And if I can indulge in a little unfounded idealism – create a starting point for other school districts.

Only 8% of high school parents and 4% of middle school parents think that schools should teach that homosexuality is acceptable?

This statistic also disturbed me because aren’t there at least a small percentage of LGBT parents? I vaguely recall that somewhere between a quarter and a third of gay and lesbian couples have a child. I don’t know what percentage of the parent population that makes up, but one would assume that at least a few of those percentage points belong to LGBT parents. So its even worse than we thought.

I imagine (read: really, really hope) that if you were to survey these same parents, asking them how many of them think that homosexuality is acceptable, you would walk away with higher numbers.

I’m less optimistic about this one because of the word “acceptable”. I think we’ve progressed as a country to the point where the old guard doesn’t think its acceptable to harm LGBT, but not to the point where being LGBT is acceptable. Please tell me I’m wrong?!

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