Comments on: When Pregnancy Legally Erases Autonomy http://thecurvature.com/2007/08/17/when-pregnancy-legally-erases-autonomy/ Sun, 05 Feb 2012 14:47:57 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Roy http://thecurvature.com/2007/08/17/when-pregnancy-legally-erases-autonomy/#comment-1137 Roy Tue, 21 Aug 2007 14:37:59 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/2007/08/17/when-pregnancy-legally-erases-autonomy/#comment-1137 If you mentioned this, I apologize, but I didn't notice it: <a href="http://nocookiesforme.blogspot.com/2007/08/woman-charged-in-death-of-stillborn.html" rel="nofollow">I wrote about this too</a>, and one of the (many) fucked up things about this case is that the law in question <i>specifically exempts</i> the mother from being charged by this law. The statute specifically states: "Nothing in this section applies to an act or failure to act of a pregnant woman with regard to her own fetus", so... uh... how in the hell can they charge her with anything under the Viable Fetus Act when, you know... it's pretty clear that she <i>can't</i> be charged with anything under the Viable Fetus Act? If you mentioned this, I apologize, but I didn’t notice it: I wrote about this too, and one of the (many) fucked up things about this case is that the law in question specifically exempts the mother from being charged by this law. The statute specifically states: “Nothing in this section applies to an act or failure to act of a pregnant woman with regard to her own fetus”, so… uh… how in the hell can they charge her with anything under the Viable Fetus Act when, you know… it’s pretty clear that she can’t be charged with anything under the Viable Fetus Act?

]]> By: bean http://thecurvature.com/2007/08/17/when-pregnancy-legally-erases-autonomy/#comment-1135 bean Mon, 20 Aug 2007 15:31:32 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/2007/08/17/when-pregnancy-legally-erases-autonomy/#comment-1135 Thanks, Cara. And I really *really* think you're writing about great stuff. Keep it up. Thanks, Cara. And I really *really* think you’re writing about great stuff. Keep it up.

]]> By: Cara http://thecurvature.com/2007/08/17/when-pregnancy-legally-erases-autonomy/#comment-1134 Cara Mon, 20 Aug 2007 15:12:32 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/2007/08/17/when-pregnancy-legally-erases-autonomy/#comment-1134 Good point, bean. I chose the word "decides" specifically in an attempt to frame the issue as pertaining to those women who <i>do</i> make an active choice to continue their pregnancies. You make a good point that the words could also be taken to mean that all women who carry their pregnancies to term <i>have</i> made an active choice, when that is not the case. I should have been more careful in my wording there, and I stand corrected. Good point, bean. I chose the word “decides” specifically in an attempt to frame the issue as pertaining to those women who do make an active choice to continue their pregnancies. You make a good point that the words could also be taken to mean that all women who carry their pregnancies to term have made an active choice, when that is not the case. I should have been more careful in my wording there, and I stand corrected.

]]> By: bean http://thecurvature.com/2007/08/17/when-pregnancy-legally-erases-autonomy/#comment-1133 bean Mon, 20 Aug 2007 15:01:15 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/2007/08/17/when-pregnancy-legally-erases-autonomy/#comment-1133 Glad to see you're writing about this and it's a great post. It's an issue about which I am very concerned. I do have one nit to pick: <i>think that if a woman decides to carry her pregnancy to term, she should do her best to behave in a way that gives her fetus the best chance of a healthy life.</i> Framing the fact that women carry to term sometimes despite a drug problem or inability to care for the fetus when it's born as an issue of choice is dangerous. There are a variety of circumstances that lead women to carry to term that don't involve choice. Lack of access to abortion or of money to pay for abortions. A desire to have a baby or a fervent belief that abortion is wrong. Denial that the pregnancy exists. While I agree at root that in ideal circumstances, women should do what they can to ensure healthy birth outcomes, framing it as an issue of choice and as an issue of what women "should" do continues the very thing your are criticizing: pitting the woman against the fetus to privilege the fetus over the woman. Glad to see you’re writing about this and it’s a great post. It’s an issue about which I am very concerned. I do have one nit to pick:

think that if a woman decides to carry her pregnancy to term, she should do her best to behave in a way that gives her fetus the best chance of a healthy life.

Framing the fact that women carry to term sometimes despite a drug problem or inability to care for the fetus when it’s born as an issue of choice is dangerous. There are a variety of circumstances that lead women to carry to term that don’t involve choice. Lack of access to abortion or of money to pay for abortions. A desire to have a baby or a fervent belief that abortion is wrong. Denial that the pregnancy exists. While I agree at root that in ideal circumstances, women should do what they can to ensure healthy birth outcomes, framing it as an issue of choice and as an issue of what women “should” do continues the very thing your are criticizing: pitting the woman against the fetus to privilege the fetus over the woman.

]]> By: Stacy http://thecurvature.com/2007/08/17/when-pregnancy-legally-erases-autonomy/#comment-1132 Stacy Mon, 20 Aug 2007 14:01:55 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/2007/08/17/when-pregnancy-legally-erases-autonomy/#comment-1132 It seems to me that there is a fine line between justice and the law. Justice isn't always black and white, and takes into consideration the whole situation. Law by its nature is man made and so it has boundaries. One law may not provide for all eventualities, and though its focus may be for preventing/protecting one thing, the circumstances surrounding the protection of such things is ambiguous. It is scary to think that the foetus is more legally provided for at that time of the mother's pregnancy than the mother is. That is so much at odds for instance with medicine, where the survival of the mother is paramount. This law in Maryland does indeed elevate a foetus to the status of full human-being, and punishes women for circumstances that could be out of their control. What could happen to a woman who has a natural stillbirth, but because she might have taken something small, usually harmless, she killed her baby. It is scary, wonderful post. It seems to me that there is a fine line between justice and the law. Justice isn’t always black and white, and takes into consideration the whole situation. Law by its nature is man made and so it has boundaries. One law may not provide for all eventualities, and though its focus may be for preventing/protecting one thing, the circumstances surrounding the protection of such things is ambiguous. It is scary to think that the foetus is more legally provided for at that time of the mother’s pregnancy than the mother is. That is so much at odds for instance with medicine, where the survival of the mother is paramount. This law in Maryland does indeed elevate a foetus to the status of full human-being, and punishes women for circumstances that could be out of their control. What could happen to a woman who has a natural stillbirth, but because she might have taken something small, usually harmless, she killed her baby. It is scary, wonderful post.

]]> By: Jender http://thecurvature.com/2007/08/17/when-pregnancy-legally-erases-autonomy/#comment-1124 Jender Fri, 17 Aug 2007 19:15:30 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/2007/08/17/when-pregnancy-legally-erases-autonomy/#comment-1124 Excellent post! There's a great discussion of these issues, making similar theoretical points with different examples in Susan Bordo's "Are Mothers Persons?" (in her book _Unbearable Weight_) Excellent post! There’s a great discussion of these issues, making similar theoretical points with different examples in Susan Bordo’s “Are Mothers Persons?” (in her book _Unbearable Weight_)

]]> By: Cara http://thecurvature.com/2007/08/17/when-pregnancy-legally-erases-autonomy/#comment-1123 Cara Fri, 17 Aug 2007 18:06:42 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/2007/08/17/when-pregnancy-legally-erases-autonomy/#comment-1123 Thanks! Thanks!

]]> By: Lancastrian http://thecurvature.com/2007/08/17/when-pregnancy-legally-erases-autonomy/#comment-1122 Lancastrian Fri, 17 Aug 2007 17:55:25 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/2007/08/17/when-pregnancy-legally-erases-autonomy/#comment-1122 I plan to post a more useful and thoughtful comment later, but for now I'll just say thanks. This was a wonderful post. I plan to post a more useful and thoughtful comment later, but for now I’ll just say thanks. This was a wonderful post.

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