Comments on: Forced Miscarriage = Murder? http://thecurvature.com/2007/11/23/forced-miscarriage-murder/ Tue, 16 Mar 2010 22:09:38 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: emma http://thecurvature.com/2007/11/23/forced-miscarriage-murder/#comment-8841 emma Thu, 04 Dec 2008 21:06:51 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/2007/11/23/forced-miscarriage-murder/#comment-8841 what about fetusus that are over 32 weeks old? babies can normally live outside the womb at that stage. they shouldn't be considered humans just because they haven't come out yet? what about fetusus that are over 32 weeks old? babies can normally live outside the womb at that stage. they shouldn’t be considered humans just because they haven’t come out yet?

]]> By: Kate http://thecurvature.com/2007/11/23/forced-miscarriage-murder/#comment-2370 Kate Sun, 25 Nov 2007 19:34:25 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/2007/11/23/forced-miscarriage-murder/#comment-2370 I basically feel the same way as Ran on a political level, but I wanted to throw in my personal, emotional perspective as a mother. I think the struggles, feelings, experiences and perceptions of feminists who choose to be mothers are often unintentionally marginalized by the greater feminist community. (I'm not saying this to be critical, I only add that in because it's an area of my life that I don't often see represented.) Anyhow, I feel like while it is a big step for a governing body to recognize the complexity of the situation by separating abortion and caused miscarriage, I also feel it is dangerous to grant a fetus rights in this country (especially in a state like Texas) and that's just the reality. Therefore, I agree that legally equating it with murder is unsettling. However, whatever you want to call the charge of causing someone a miscarriage, I think the punishment should be very fierce. I would even entertain the notion of a punishment comparable to murder, such as a life in prison. (I don't believe in the death penalty) I say this because I know there is no pain like losing a baby... even only a would-be-baby. For me and for many women, I knew my 9 week old fetus wasn't really a person yet, but it sure as hell felt like it was. It's a difficult thing to explain, but I wanted my baby so bad that I made it real. I loved it like I loved my family... maybe even more. I think a huge part of it was because it was a part of me. Many, many pregnant women feel this way to the point where loosing a fetus is no different than losing a child. The devastation is very real and it is crippling. I think that when we discuss forced abortion or miscarriage, we need to keep in mind what it's like for a woman who looses a wanted baby. We should be equally as concerned about them. Just to add, I think the punishment for rape, abuse, and forced pregnancy should be life in prison as well. The living body isn't the only part of a person that can be destroyed, and destroying a person's mental, psychological, emotional or spiritual self isn't any less monstrous. Sorry if this was long and too personal, it's just a very personal issue for me. Thanks. I basically feel the same way as Ran on a political level, but I wanted to throw in my personal, emotional perspective as a mother. I think the struggles, feelings, experiences and perceptions of feminists who choose to be mothers are often unintentionally marginalized by the greater feminist community. (I’m not saying this to be critical, I only add that in because it’s an area of my life that I don’t often see represented.)
Anyhow, I feel like while it is a big step for a governing body to recognize the complexity of the situation by separating abortion and caused miscarriage, I also feel it is dangerous to grant a fetus rights in this country (especially in a state like Texas) and that’s just the reality. Therefore, I agree that legally equating it with murder is unsettling. However, whatever you want to call the charge of causing someone a miscarriage, I think the punishment should be very fierce. I would even entertain the notion of a punishment comparable to murder, such as a life in prison. (I don’t believe in the death penalty) I say this because I know there is no pain like losing a baby… even only a would-be-baby. For me and for many women, I knew my 9 week old fetus wasn’t really a person yet, but it sure as hell felt like it was. It’s a difficult thing to explain, but I wanted my baby so bad that I made it real. I loved it like I loved my family… maybe even more. I think a huge part of it was because it was a part of me. Many, many pregnant women feel this way to the point where loosing a fetus is no different than losing a child. The devastation is very real and it is crippling. I think that when we discuss forced abortion or miscarriage, we need to keep in mind what it’s like for a woman who looses a wanted baby. We should be equally as concerned about them. Just to add, I think the punishment for rape, abuse, and forced pregnancy should be life in prison as well. The living body isn’t the only part of a person that can be destroyed, and destroying a person’s mental, psychological, emotional or spiritual self isn’t any less monstrous. Sorry if this was long and too personal, it’s just a very personal issue for me. Thanks.

]]> By: Ran http://thecurvature.com/2007/11/23/forced-miscarriage-murder/#comment-2358 Ran Sat, 24 Nov 2007 08:49:18 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/2007/11/23/forced-miscarriage-murder/#comment-2358 I agree with your viewpoint, but I think I see a viewpoint that would justify this decision. It's currently a rather open question whether a fetus is a person. Due to a woman's rights to privacy and to autonomy over her body, with abortion we let a woman decide for herself (well, and for her fetus) whether it's a person — i.e., we err on the side of assuming it's not. But that's not relevant in a case like this; here, no such rights apply, so we err on the side of protecting entities that may be our most defenseless citizens. (Such a viewpoint, incidentally, would not be a very strongly pro-choice viewpoint, since at some level of "I think it's probably a person" the fetus's probable right to life would supersede the mother's certain but lesser right to bodily autonomy.) I agree with your viewpoint, but I think I see a viewpoint that would justify this decision.

It’s currently a rather open question whether a fetus is a person. Due to a woman’s rights to privacy and to autonomy over her body, with abortion we let a woman decide for herself (well, and for her fetus) whether it’s a person — i.e., we err on the side of assuming it’s not. But that’s not relevant in a case like this; here, no such rights apply, so we err on the side of protecting entities that may be our most defenseless citizens.

(Such a viewpoint, incidentally, would not be a very strongly pro-choice viewpoint, since at some level of “I think it’s probably a person” the fetus’s probable right to life would supersede the mother’s certain but lesser right to bodily autonomy.)

]]> By: cherylp http://thecurvature.com/2007/11/23/forced-miscarriage-murder/#comment-2356 cherylp Sat, 24 Nov 2007 00:42:37 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/2007/11/23/forced-miscarriage-murder/#comment-2356 Thanks for the post, Cara. I have been thinking about this too and felt iffy about it. You've articulated why, I think, very well here. You're right about the contradictions in this ruling - it doesn't make any sense to assign personhood in one case and not in another. I can't even wrap my head around that... Thanks for the post, Cara. I have been thinking about this too and felt iffy about it. You’ve articulated why, I think, very well here. You’re right about the contradictions in this ruling – it doesn’t make any sense to assign personhood in one case and not in another. I can’t even wrap my head around that…

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