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	<title>Comments on: The Haitian Rape Epidemic</title>
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		<title>By: Cara</title>
		<link>http://thecurvature.com/2007/12/03/the-haitian-rape-epidemic/#comment-2496</link>
		<dc:creator>Cara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 14:06:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecurvature.com/2007/12/03/the-haitian-rape-epidemic/#comment-2496</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Don’t fall into the trap of unnecessary deference and respect - you wouldn’t praise the Aztecs practice of human sacrifice and giving accceptance to Haitian males self mutilation of their genitals is equally unwise.&lt;/i&gt;

I never argued that it wasn&#039;t unwise, Michelle.  In fact, I pointed out that it was from a health standpoint.  I just have no fucking clue what it has to do with the rape epidemic, and I imagine that it&#039;s very little.  It seems to me that by conflating a sexual act that we would find to be odd with rape is to insult all of those who partake in the practice but are not rapists.  It&#039;s not the same as condoning rape, since there was no mention of genital cutting being part of some sort of raping ritual.

A comparison: an article about the problem of rape in America -- and it is a problem -- talking about victims, about rapists, about rape culture, about how and why rape is condoned.  And then the sentence &quot;American men have many strange sexual habits -- it&#039;s common to engage in anal sex.&quot;  What the fuck does that have to do with anything?  There&#039;s a big difference from talking about things that directly condone sexual violence, like violent porn for instance, or the habit of many men to try to coerce women into anal sex, and a sexual act that many people engage in and enjoy consensually.  I don&#039;t think that discussing the topic of rape is an excuse to shame people out of &quot;odd&quot; but unrelated sexual practices.

Alex, thanks for commenting.  I do intend to read Bourke&#039;s book, though I hadn&#039;t heard your suggestions about it clashing with feminist ideas.  I certainly do think that sexual cultures play a role in the prevalence of rape, but that&#039;s probably because sexual cultures are generally linked to the greater culture as a whole.  For example, I think that the fact that sex is so often viewed as &quot;conquest&quot; in the West cannot be ignored as a social attitude that encourages rape.  I don&#039;t think that most feminists ignore this when they say that rape is about &quot;power&quot; -- it still is.  It&#039;s not about men being so horny that they can&#039;t control themselves.  It&#039;s about men growing up in a culture that tells them when that when they get horny, they shouldn&#039;t &lt;i&gt;have&lt;/i&gt; to control themselves.  It&#039;s about social expectations regarding sex, a desire to fit cultural notions of masculinity, and a disregard for women.  And all of those things are about power.

&lt;i&gt;It would be wrong to ignore the roles in thes problems of issues like a predilection for violent sex, self mutilation, general ignorance of sexual health issues, lack of policing, low regard for the status and rights of women, lack of employment for both sexes, poverty - since these are also unusually chronic in the country.&lt;/i&gt;

I agree with you on nearly every point, here.    I think that the self-mutilation could have warranted mention for many reasons.  Examples: if it was a part of some raping ritual, if it was part of initiation into gangs, if it was believed to be contributing to the spread of HIV.  I didn&#039;t gather that from the article, though.  There is the vague phrase &quot;health problems,&quot; but the main emphasis to me seems to be on the &quot;weirdness.&quot;  In addition, one of those you quote as talking about sexual practices as being &quot;bizarre to the point of disturbing&quot; is admitted to being Italian, not Haitian.  

I thank you for writing the article.  It taught me a lot and I think that it&#039;s a story that needs to be told.  I also don&#039;t think that we can ignore our propensity as human beings towards making harmful and unfair judgments against those we are trying to help.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Don’t fall into the trap of unnecessary deference and respect &#8211; you wouldn’t praise the Aztecs practice of human sacrifice and giving accceptance to Haitian males self mutilation of their genitals is equally unwise.</i></p>
<p>I never argued that it wasn&#8217;t unwise, Michelle.  In fact, I pointed out that it was from a health standpoint.  I just have no fucking clue what it has to do with the rape epidemic, and I imagine that it&#8217;s very little.  It seems to me that by conflating a sexual act that we would find to be odd with rape is to insult all of those who partake in the practice but are not rapists.  It&#8217;s not the same as condoning rape, since there was no mention of genital cutting being part of some sort of raping ritual.</p>
<p>A comparison: an article about the problem of rape in America &#8212; and it is a problem &#8212; talking about victims, about rapists, about rape culture, about how and why rape is condoned.  And then the sentence &#8220;American men have many strange sexual habits &#8212; it&#8217;s common to engage in anal sex.&#8221;  What the fuck does that have to do with anything?  There&#8217;s a big difference from talking about things that directly condone sexual violence, like violent porn for instance, or the habit of many men to try to coerce women into anal sex, and a sexual act that many people engage in and enjoy consensually.  I don&#8217;t think that discussing the topic of rape is an excuse to shame people out of &#8220;odd&#8221; but unrelated sexual practices.</p>
<p>Alex, thanks for commenting.  I do intend to read Bourke&#8217;s book, though I hadn&#8217;t heard your suggestions about it clashing with feminist ideas.  I certainly do think that sexual cultures play a role in the prevalence of rape, but that&#8217;s probably because sexual cultures are generally linked to the greater culture as a whole.  For example, I think that the fact that sex is so often viewed as &#8220;conquest&#8221; in the West cannot be ignored as a social attitude that encourages rape.  I don&#8217;t think that most feminists ignore this when they say that rape is about &#8220;power&#8221; &#8212; it still is.  It&#8217;s not about men being so horny that they can&#8217;t control themselves.  It&#8217;s about men growing up in a culture that tells them when that when they get horny, they shouldn&#8217;t <i>have</i> to control themselves.  It&#8217;s about social expectations regarding sex, a desire to fit cultural notions of masculinity, and a disregard for women.  And all of those things are about power.</p>
<p><i>It would be wrong to ignore the roles in thes problems of issues like a predilection for violent sex, self mutilation, general ignorance of sexual health issues, lack of policing, low regard for the status and rights of women, lack of employment for both sexes, poverty &#8211; since these are also unusually chronic in the country.</i></p>
<p>I agree with you on nearly every point, here.    I think that the self-mutilation could have warranted mention for many reasons.  Examples: if it was a part of some raping ritual, if it was part of initiation into gangs, if it was believed to be contributing to the spread of HIV.  I didn&#8217;t gather that from the article, though.  There is the vague phrase &#8220;health problems,&#8221; but the main emphasis to me seems to be on the &#8220;weirdness.&#8221;  In addition, one of those you quote as talking about sexual practices as being &#8220;bizarre to the point of disturbing&#8221; is admitted to being Italian, not Haitian.  </p>
<p>I thank you for writing the article.  It taught me a lot and I think that it&#8217;s a story that needs to be told.  I also don&#8217;t think that we can ignore our propensity as human beings towards making harmful and unfair judgments against those we are trying to help.</p>
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		<title>By: AlexRenton</title>
		<link>http://thecurvature.com/2007/12/03/the-haitian-rape-epidemic/#comment-2495</link>
		<dc:creator>AlexRenton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 10:18:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecurvature.com/2007/12/03/the-haitian-rape-epidemic/#comment-2495</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Very glad you blogged my article - in 20 years of reporting from all over the world it was one of the most awful stories I have come across. All the worse, because noone seems to have any plan or notion of how to tackle it - unlike, say, in Bangladesh and India, where there are good and new ideas that seem to be having some impact on levels of violence against women.&lt;br /&gt;

Of course you&#039;re right to take me up on the issue of &quot;bizarre&quot; sexual practices among Haitian men. But do, please, read the article in its entirety: these practices are described and commented on by four people: two Western NGO workers, one female Haitian NGO worker and one Haitian man. They also reflect half a dozen other conversations I had in Haiti, with Haitians in sexual health work and human rights. I could not ignore it. If there is an epidemic of rape in Haiti, then the fact that aberrant or violent sexual behaviour is more common than normal in the country is an aspect that has to be addressed, however that may make liberal Western cultural relativists (a movement to which I&#039;m proud to belong!).&lt;br /&gt;

Haiti has two huge problems - HIV/AIDS and violence against women - that, statistically, make it stand out from every other country in the Caribbean - in the hemisphere. It would be wrong to ignore the roles in thes problems of issues like a predilection for violent sex, self mutilation, general ignorance of sexual health issues, lack of policing, low regard for the status and rights of women, lack of employment for both sexes, poverty - since these are also unusually chronic in the country.&lt;br /&gt;

 As Professor Joanna Bourke told me - to paraphrase - rape is social and environmental and cultural - and all aspects of it, particularly the sexual, have to be understood if levels of rape against women are to be lowered. This is controversial, and her new book on rape (do read it - &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.opendemocracy.net/article/democracy_power/5050/tackling_rape rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&#039;s an article&lt;/a&gt;) will annoy many traditional feminists, but I think the Haitian crisis bears out much of what she has to say.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very glad you blogged my article &#8211; in 20 years of reporting from all over the world it was one of the most awful stories I have come across. All the worse, because noone seems to have any plan or notion of how to tackle it &#8211; unlike, say, in Bangladesh and India, where there are good and new ideas that seem to be having some impact on levels of violence against women.</p>
<p>Of course you&#8217;re right to take me up on the issue of &#8220;bizarre&#8221; sexual practices among Haitian men. But do, please, read the article in its entirety: these practices are described and commented on by four people: two Western NGO workers, one female Haitian NGO worker and one Haitian man. They also reflect half a dozen other conversations I had in Haiti, with Haitians in sexual health work and human rights. I could not ignore it. If there is an epidemic of rape in Haiti, then the fact that aberrant or violent sexual behaviour is more common than normal in the country is an aspect that has to be addressed, however that may make liberal Western cultural relativists (a movement to which I&#8217;m proud to belong!).</p>
<p>Haiti has two huge problems &#8211; HIV/AIDS and violence against women &#8211; that, statistically, make it stand out from every other country in the Caribbean &#8211; in the hemisphere. It would be wrong to ignore the roles in thes problems of issues like a predilection for violent sex, self mutilation, general ignorance of sexual health issues, lack of policing, low regard for the status and rights of women, lack of employment for both sexes, poverty &#8211; since these are also unusually chronic in the country.</p>
<p> As Professor Joanna Bourke told me &#8211; to paraphrase &#8211; rape is social and environmental and cultural &#8211; and all aspects of it, particularly the sexual, have to be understood if levels of rape against women are to be lowered. This is controversial, and her new book on rape (do read it &#8211; <a href="http://www.opendemocracy.net/article/democracy_power/5050/tackling_rape rel="nofollow">here&#8217;s an article</a>) will annoy many traditional feminists, but I think the Haitian crisis bears out much of what she has to say.</p>
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		<title>By: Michelle</title>
		<link>http://thecurvature.com/2007/12/03/the-haitian-rape-epidemic/#comment-2494</link>
		<dc:creator>Michelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 05:50:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecurvature.com/2007/12/03/the-haitian-rape-epidemic/#comment-2494</guid>
		<description>Renton didn&#039;t call them bizarre etc  - he just quoted someone (a &quot;French NGO&quot; apparently) that did - and i guess they would be to the average Westerner who doesn&#039;t do that kind of thing.

Don&#039;t fall into the trap of unnecessary deference and respect - you wouldn&#039;t praise the Aztecs practice of human sacrifice and giving accceptance to Haitian males self mutilation of their genitals is equally unwise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Renton didn&#8217;t call them bizarre etc  &#8211; he just quoted someone (a &#8220;French NGO&#8221; apparently) that did &#8211; and i guess they would be to the average Westerner who doesn&#8217;t do that kind of thing.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t fall into the trap of unnecessary deference and respect &#8211; you wouldn&#8217;t praise the Aztecs practice of human sacrifice and giving accceptance to Haitian males self mutilation of their genitals is equally unwise.</p>
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