Comments on: What’s Your Roe IQ? http://thecurvature.com/2007/12/05/whats-your-roe-iq/ Tue, 16 Mar 2010 00:24:35 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Cara http://thecurvature.com/2007/12/05/whats-your-roe-iq/#comment-3303 Cara Tue, 05 Feb 2008 01:27:45 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/2007/12/05/whats-your-roe-iq/#comment-3303 <p>Actually, Jo, some of your information is off there. McCorvy was chosen for the case because she tried to get an illegal abortion but couldn't travel to do so, not because she was duped. Secondly, she now says that she didn't want one, so which is it? Weddington duped her into putting her name on the case even though she didn't want an abortion or she was duped into not getting an abortion by an ambitious lawyer? Also, while Weddington may have had a legal abortion that I don't know about after Roe, the abortion you're probably referring to was illegal, quite a few years before Roe (she was still in law school) and in Mexico.</p> <p>As for what is true, yes, I do know it. I'm not really sure how it's extremely relevant, but I know it all the same. I do my fair share of reading and digging.</p> Actually, Jo, some of your information is off there. McCorvy was chosen for the case because she tried to get an illegal abortion but couldn’t travel to do so, not because she was duped. Secondly, she now says that she didn’t want one, so which is it? Weddington duped her into putting her name on the case even though she didn’t want an abortion or she was duped into not getting an abortion by an ambitious lawyer? Also, while Weddington may have had a legal abortion that I don’t know about after Roe, the abortion you’re probably referring to was illegal, quite a few years before Roe (she was still in law school) and in Mexico.

As for what is true, yes, I do know it. I’m not really sure how it’s extremely relevant, but I know it all the same. I do my fair share of reading and digging.

]]> By: jo http://thecurvature.com/2007/12/05/whats-your-roe-iq/#comment-3302 jo Tue, 05 Feb 2008 01:22:30 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/2007/12/05/whats-your-roe-iq/#comment-3302 Ginsburg did say that and it is only taken out of context if you assume that by it she was condemning Roe. She was just stating a fact, that Roe was based on weak law. Anyone who has observed the way Ginsburg has voted knows her decisions are all based on a liberal point of view and that she has never foundered on her pro choice viewpoint. But a fact is a fact; Roe was decided on weak law. Also, Roe did not provide abortion on demand. Doe did. And Doe was decided on the same day. So Roe or Doe, they go hand in glove. Here's another question for you. Did you know that Norma McCorvy (Roe), Sandra Cano (Doe) and Bernard Nathanson (cofounder of NARAL)are all vocal prolifers now? And did you know that Sandra Cano never agreed to put her name on the affidavid that became Doe vs Bolton? And Norma McCorvy never did get an abortion even though her attorney, the infamous Sarah Weddington, got one after filing the affidavid. Weddington used McCorvy's unplanned pregnancy to her advantage instead of helping McCorvy get an abortion. There's a lot of interesting information out there. You just have to dig for it sometimes. Ginsburg did say that and it is only taken out of context if you assume that by it she was condemning Roe. She was just stating a fact, that Roe was based on weak law. Anyone who has observed the way Ginsburg has voted knows her decisions are all based on a liberal point of view and that she has never foundered on her pro choice viewpoint. But a fact is a fact; Roe was decided on weak law. Also, Roe did not provide abortion on demand. Doe did. And Doe was decided on the same day. So Roe or Doe, they go hand in glove.

Here’s another question for you. Did you know that Norma McCorvy (Roe), Sandra Cano (Doe) and Bernard Nathanson (cofounder of NARAL)are all vocal prolifers now?
And did you know that Sandra Cano never agreed to put her name on the affidavid that became Doe vs Bolton? And Norma McCorvy never did get an abortion even though her attorney, the infamous Sarah Weddington, got one after filing the affidavid. Weddington used McCorvy’s unplanned pregnancy to her advantage instead of helping McCorvy get an abortion. There’s a lot of interesting information out there. You just have to dig for it sometimes.

]]> By: Cara http://thecurvature.com/2007/12/05/whats-your-roe-iq/#comment-2546 Cara Fri, 07 Dec 2007 20:23:12 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/2007/12/05/whats-your-roe-iq/#comment-2546 maatnofret, if my memory serves, Roe didn't actually set limits by trimester, they just established the trimester rule and outlined how state governments could restrict later abortions. It pretty much gave them an anti-choice blueprint, but I'm quite sure that it didn't <i>actually</i> create the restrictions. But it's good to know that Ginsburg was quoted out of context. Also, I'm just going to take your word on it, because I really do need to have some kind of faith in at least one of our Supreme Court Justices, and she's kind of the only one left. I also wish that Roe had been decided under better reasoning. If it had been, there's no doubt that it would still be under attack, but it also probably wouldn't look as flimsy as it does now. maatnofret, if my memory serves, Roe didn’t actually set limits by trimester, they just established the trimester rule and outlined how state governments could restrict later abortions. It pretty much gave them an anti-choice blueprint, but I’m quite sure that it didn’t actually create the restrictions.

But it’s good to know that Ginsburg was quoted out of context. Also, I’m just going to take your word on it, because I really do need to have some kind of faith in at least one of our Supreme Court Justices, and she’s kind of the only one left.

I also wish that Roe had been decided under better reasoning. If it had been, there’s no doubt that it would still be under attack, but it also probably wouldn’t look as flimsy as it does now.

]]> By: maatnofret http://thecurvature.com/2007/12/05/whats-your-roe-iq/#comment-2544 maatnofret Fri, 07 Dec 2007 20:13:47 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/2007/12/05/whats-your-roe-iq/#comment-2544 Furthermore, they did not accurately represent the abortions that Roe allowed. That case allowed for first trimester without question, third trimester only in extraordinary circumstances, and the second trimester wasn't remarked on, if memory serves. It was ANOTHER court case which added the second trimester to the first. Their own support material confirms this. They also lie by omission and implication. It is true that abortion in the US is legal for all nine months. That fact, when standing on its own, implies that obtaining an abortion at eight months is as easy as obtaining one at two months. This is a lie. late term abortions are rare. Doctors do not perform them on healthy women with healthy fetuses. Furthermore, left to their own devices, almost all women in their third trimester will carry their pregnancy to term. Late term abortions only occur when there is a serious threat to the life or health of the woman, or the fetus has a fatal birth defect. The person that can best determine whether that is the case is the doctor, not the law, which is why the law should stay out of it. Oh, and Ginsberg was quoted out of context. I've heard many pro-choicers say that Roe could have had better reasoning. However, that does not imply that they believe abortion should be illegal. It's disingenuous to insinuate this. Furthermore, they did not accurately represent the abortions that Roe allowed. That case allowed for first trimester without question, third trimester only in extraordinary circumstances, and the second trimester wasn’t remarked on, if memory serves. It was ANOTHER court case which added the second trimester to the first. Their own support material confirms this.

They also lie by omission and implication. It is true that abortion in the US is legal for all nine months. That fact, when standing on its own, implies that obtaining an abortion at eight months is as easy as obtaining one at two months. This is a lie. late term abortions are rare. Doctors do not perform them on healthy women with healthy fetuses. Furthermore, left to their own devices, almost all women in their third trimester will carry their pregnancy to term. Late term abortions only occur when there is a serious threat to the life or health of the woman, or the fetus has a fatal birth defect. The person that can best determine whether that is the case is the doctor, not the law, which is why the law should stay out of it.

Oh, and Ginsberg was quoted out of context. I’ve heard many pro-choicers say that Roe could have had better reasoning. However, that does not imply that they believe abortion should be illegal. It’s disingenuous to insinuate this.

]]> By: Cara http://thecurvature.com/2007/12/05/whats-your-roe-iq/#comment-2542 Cara Fri, 07 Dec 2007 19:15:34 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/2007/12/05/whats-your-roe-iq/#comment-2542 1. We've already established that not all of the answers are entirely factually accurate. 2. The way that questions are framed, particularly when purported to come from a neutral source, has an effect on public discourse. 3. There's a good chance that the information they gather is going to be used to inform all of their crazy anti-choice tactics. 1. We’ve already established that not all of the answers are entirely factually accurate.
2. The way that questions are framed, particularly when purported to come from a neutral source, has an effect on public discourse.
3. There’s a good chance that the information they gather is going to be used to inform all of their crazy anti-choice tactics.

]]> By: Chet Lemon http://thecurvature.com/2007/12/05/whats-your-roe-iq/#comment-2541 Chet Lemon Fri, 07 Dec 2007 18:23:30 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/2007/12/05/whats-your-roe-iq/#comment-2541 Why would an "anti-choice slant" matter if the quiz is factually accurate? Why would an “anti-choice slant” matter if the quiz is factually accurate?

]]> By: Izzy http://thecurvature.com/2007/12/05/whats-your-roe-iq/#comment-2530 Izzy Thu, 06 Dec 2007 03:45:02 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/2007/12/05/whats-your-roe-iq/#comment-2530 I was surprised at how many I totally missed, but picked up on the anti-choice slant, as well. :( I knew I got the "how many abortions..." because that number was drilled into us at catholic school, but was really surprised at the low percentage of rape/incest abortions. I suppose its fitting with the low amount of rapes that are even reported. I was surprised at how many I totally missed, but picked up on the anti-choice slant, as well. :(
I knew I got the “how many abortions…” because that number was drilled into us at catholic school, but was really surprised at the low percentage of rape/incest abortions. I suppose its fitting with the low amount of rapes that are even reported.

]]> By: Cara http://thecurvature.com/2007/12/05/whats-your-roe-iq/#comment-2529 Cara Thu, 06 Dec 2007 01:32:09 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/2007/12/05/whats-your-roe-iq/#comment-2529 I picked Finland, too, Maia. I was really surprised to find out that abortion is illegal there . .. though once I heard it, I do think that it's come up before and I was just as surprised then. I picked Finland, too, Maia. I was really surprised to find out that abortion is illegal there . .. though once I heard it, I do think that it’s come up before and I was just as surprised then.

]]> By: Maia http://thecurvature.com/2007/12/05/whats-your-roe-iq/#comment-2528 Maia Thu, 06 Dec 2007 00:38:49 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/2007/12/05/whats-your-roe-iq/#comment-2528 Just wanted to share a slightly different experience in the UK. About 10 years ago I went to see a doctor for a pg test. I told him I would want an abortion (he didn't ask, I had to ask about it myself) but he just bluntly told me I'd have to go through counselling and that it would be too late, and provided no other information whatsoever - which is just as well because what he did tell me was not true! So yes, in the UK if you know how to go about it and can afford to pay for an abortion, you can get two doctors to sign the forms with no real questions are asked. But if you have to do it on the NHS it really, really depends on the doctor you get. Some NHS GPs definitely are anti-abortion, and they do not have to tell you that they are anti-abortion or even provide you with any information about abortion if it is against their conscience. PS I picked Finland. I assumed they would be pretty liberal but maybe not! Just wanted to share a slightly different experience in the UK. About 10 years ago I went to see a doctor for a pg test. I told him I would want an abortion (he didn’t ask, I had to ask about it myself) but he just bluntly told me I’d have to go through counselling and that it would be too late, and provided no other information whatsoever – which is just as well because what he did tell me was not true!

So yes, in the UK if you know how to go about it and can afford to pay for an abortion, you can get two doctors to sign the forms with no real questions are asked. But if you have to do it on the NHS it really, really depends on the doctor you get. Some NHS GPs definitely are anti-abortion, and they do not have to tell you that they are anti-abortion or even provide you with any information about abortion if it is against their conscience.

PS I picked Finland. I assumed they would be pretty liberal but maybe not!

]]> By: roses http://thecurvature.com/2007/12/05/whats-your-roe-iq/#comment-2527 roses Thu, 06 Dec 2007 00:34:07 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/2007/12/05/whats-your-roe-iq/#comment-2527 I think if I hadn't already read that this was sponsored by an anti-choice group, question #9 would have set my radar off. (Which of our nation's founding documents contains the phrase "right to an abortion"?) And as far as question #11, that's probably a pretty carefully chosen group of countries... Canada for one doesn't have any legal restrictions on abortion at all. I think if I hadn’t already read that this was sponsored by an anti-choice group, question #9 would have set my radar off. (Which of our nation’s founding documents contains the phrase “right to an abortion”?) And as far as question #11, that’s probably a pretty carefully chosen group of countries… Canada for one doesn’t have any legal restrictions on abortion at all.

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