Comments on: Offensive Remark of the Week: White People Just Don’t Get Enough Credit for Stopping the Whole Lynching Thing Edition http://thecurvature.com/2008/03/23/offensive-remark-of-the-week-white-people-just-dont-get-enough-credit-for-stopping-the-whole-lynching-thing-edition/ Sat, 28 Apr 2012 20:40:33 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: literarycritic http://thecurvature.com/2008/03/23/offensive-remark-of-the-week-white-people-just-dont-get-enough-credit-for-stopping-the-whole-lynching-thing-edition/#comment-5569 literarycritic Mon, 09 Jun 2008 14:21:24 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/2008/03/23/offensive-remark-of-the-week-white-people-just-dont-get-enough-credit-for-stopping-the-whole-lynching-thing-edition/#comment-5569 <i>I really think there’s a significant difference between an insano-racist doctor who lets a curable disease take its natural fatal course in a patient who already has it, and an insano-racist doctor who actually infects someone with the disease.</i> Ran, do you not see that the effect is actually the same? Failing to provide information and treatment for a sexually transmitted disease necessarily means that it will be passed on to others. These doctors clearly understood that the infection would be passed on to the sexual partners of the totally unaware "study participants," and they sat back and let that happen, <b>knowing</b> it would happen. If that's not "actually infecting people" with syphilis, I don't know what is. I really think there’s a significant difference between an insano-racist doctor who lets a curable disease take its natural fatal course in a patient who already has it, and an insano-racist doctor who actually infects someone with the disease.

Ran, do you not see that the effect is actually the same? Failing to provide information and treatment for a sexually transmitted disease necessarily means that it will be passed on to others. These doctors clearly understood that the infection would be passed on to the sexual partners of the totally unaware “study participants,” and they sat back and let that happen, knowing it would happen. If that’s not “actually infecting people” with syphilis, I don’t know what is.

]]> By: steve http://thecurvature.com/2008/03/23/offensive-remark-of-the-week-white-people-just-dont-get-enough-credit-for-stopping-the-whole-lynching-thing-edition/#comment-5519 steve Sat, 07 Jun 2008 04:18:12 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/2008/03/23/offensive-remark-of-the-week-white-people-just-dont-get-enough-credit-for-stopping-the-whole-lynching-thing-edition/#comment-5519 LOVE the "fucking nut" comment ... But this scumbag showed his own personal stripes years ago. For many years (beginning in the 1980s), Buchanan (and his just lovely sister, the only person he can get to be his PR flack) thought that the single most important thing he could talk about, write about, speak about --- Was whether some machinist from Milwaukee named John Demjanjuk was or was not a Nazi war criminal called "Ivan the Terrible". The US government said "Yes!" but old Pat thought otherwise. And for some reason decided that Demjanjuk's cause was HIS cause, too! Anyone interested in the case should check the Wikipedia story about 'John Demjanjuk'. It is not very pretty. Anyway, Buchanan is just nauseating ... But I do have to give him props for being interviewed by Sascha Baron Cohen for his 'BBC show' and going along with it even after he quickly figured out it was a scam. But just imagine the odor when Pat Buchanan and Larry King get in line next to each other at the latest White House BBQ buffet ... LOVE the “fucking nut” comment … But this scumbag showed his own personal stripes years ago. For many years (beginning in the 1980s), Buchanan (and his just lovely sister, the only person he can get to be his PR flack) thought that the single most important thing he could talk about, write about, speak about — Was whether some machinist from Milwaukee named John Demjanjuk was or was not a Nazi war criminal called “Ivan the Terrible”. The US government said “Yes!” but old Pat thought otherwise. And for some reason decided that Demjanjuk’s cause was HIS cause, too! Anyone interested in the case should check the Wikipedia story about ‘John Demjanjuk’. It is not very pretty. Anyway, Buchanan is just nauseating … But I do have to give him props for being interviewed by Sascha Baron Cohen for his ‘BBC show’ and going along with it even after he quickly figured out it was a scam. But just imagine the odor when Pat Buchanan and Larry King get in line next to each other at the latest White House BBQ buffet …

]]> By: Chris Matthews Racism Watch : The Curvature http://thecurvature.com/2008/03/23/offensive-remark-of-the-week-white-people-just-dont-get-enough-credit-for-stopping-the-whole-lynching-thing-edition/#comment-5498 Chris Matthews Racism Watch : The Curvature Fri, 06 Jun 2008 17:52:06 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/2008/03/23/offensive-remark-of-the-week-white-people-just-dont-get-enough-credit-for-stopping-the-whole-lynching-thing-edition/#comment-5498 [...] and that if there is, it’s certainly not better. I also find it (angrily) amusing because so many conservatives demand that black people start acting more grateful precisely because of what America has “given” them. It’s dizzying logic: black [...] [...] and that if there is, it’s certainly not better. I also find it (angrily) amusing because so many conservatives demand that black people start acting more grateful precisely because of what America has “given” them. It’s dizzying logic: black [...]

]]> By: Feministe » Chris Matthews Racism Watch http://thecurvature.com/2008/03/23/offensive-remark-of-the-week-white-people-just-dont-get-enough-credit-for-stopping-the-whole-lynching-thing-edition/#comment-5497 Feministe » Chris Matthews Racism Watch Fri, 06 Jun 2008 17:50:43 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/2008/03/23/offensive-remark-of-the-week-white-people-just-dont-get-enough-credit-for-stopping-the-whole-lynching-thing-edition/#comment-5497 [...] and that if there is, it’s certainly not better. I also find it (angrily) amusing because so many conservatives demand that black people start acting more grateful precisely because of what America has “given” them. It’s dizzying logic: black [...] [...] and that if there is, it’s certainly not better. I also find it (angrily) amusing because so many conservatives demand that black people start acting more grateful precisely because of what America has “given” them. It’s dizzying logic: black [...]

]]> By: Gina http://thecurvature.com/2008/03/23/offensive-remark-of-the-week-white-people-just-dont-get-enough-credit-for-stopping-the-whole-lynching-thing-edition/#comment-4564 Gina Thu, 01 May 2008 16:20:59 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/2008/03/23/offensive-remark-of-the-week-white-people-just-dont-get-enough-credit-for-stopping-the-whole-lynching-thing-edition/#comment-4564 As an African-American woman, I was shocked but not surprised. Thank you Cara, for this post. With regards to the comments about the experiments - I suggest you read a book called Medical Apartheid. The author researched how both slaves & freedmen were used in hospitals for experiments that were conducted without their knowledge. I dont think people will ever understand the level of damage that has been done to the African-American community. I really appreciate reading the comments of those who try to walk in our shoes. As an African-American woman, I was shocked but not surprised. Thank you Cara, for this post. With regards to the comments about the experiments – I suggest you read a book called Medical Apartheid. The author researched how both slaves & freedmen were used in hospitals for experiments that were conducted without their knowledge. I dont think people will ever understand the level of damage that has been done to the African-American community. I really appreciate reading the comments of those who try to walk in our shoes.

]]> By: Ran http://thecurvature.com/2008/03/23/offensive-remark-of-the-week-white-people-just-dont-get-enough-credit-for-stopping-the-whole-lynching-thing-edition/#comment-4061 Ran Tue, 01 Apr 2008 00:05:04 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/2008/03/23/offensive-remark-of-the-week-white-people-just-dont-get-enough-credit-for-stopping-the-whole-lynching-thing-edition/#comment-4061 Red Seven: I appreciate that you phrase your potential straw men in the form of questions, instead of simply assuming them as many might. The reason for my insistence is simply that I care deeply about factual accuracy — more than is always reasonable, TBH, and I do try to be accommodating (everyone makes mistakes, myself included) — but in this case I actually don't think I'm being terribly unreasonable. I really think there's a significant difference between an insano-racist doctor who lets a curable disease take its natural fatal course in a patient who already has it, and an insano-racist doctor who actually infects someone with the disease. (But obviously either one should be in prison or a mental hospital or something.) Also, when it looked like Al was waving his credentials as a flag and a substitute for facts, it was hard to be sure that he had actually had said credentials. The Web has no shortage of people who claim credentials they don't have. Juju: Well, I <i>was</i> able to find useful materials on the Web, just not any that corroborated Al's claims. Thanks for the link, though: it looks really useful. :-) (And of course you're right that Wikipedia isn't an authoritative source; that's why I asked Al for a link that did support his claims.) Red Seven: I appreciate that you phrase your potential straw men in the form of questions, instead of simply assuming them as many might. The reason for my insistence is simply that I care deeply about factual accuracy — more than is always reasonable, TBH, and I do try to be accommodating (everyone makes mistakes, myself included) — but in this case I actually don’t think I’m being terribly unreasonable. I really think there’s a significant difference between an insano-racist doctor who lets a curable disease take its natural fatal course in a patient who already has it, and an insano-racist doctor who actually infects someone with the disease. (But obviously either one should be in prison or a mental hospital or something.) Also, when it looked like Al was waving his credentials as a flag and a substitute for facts, it was hard to be sure that he had actually had said credentials. The Web has no shortage of people who claim credentials they don’t have.

Juju: Well, I was able to find useful materials on the Web, just not any that corroborated Al’s claims. Thanks for the link, though: it looks really useful. :-)

(And of course you’re right that Wikipedia isn’t an authoritative source; that’s why I asked Al for a link that did support his claims.)

]]> By: juju http://thecurvature.com/2008/03/23/offensive-remark-of-the-week-white-people-just-dont-get-enough-credit-for-stopping-the-whole-lynching-thing-edition/#comment-4025 juju Fri, 28 Mar 2008 15:29:39 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/2008/03/23/offensive-remark-of-the-week-white-people-just-dont-get-enough-credit-for-stopping-the-whole-lynching-thing-edition/#comment-4025 Ran, Wikipedia is NOT an authoritative source. If you are not able to find useful materials on the web, take advantage of the resources available to you at the research branch of the public library in your local area. Run a search on the applicable journal databases, or ask a librarian to assist you. The librarian can also run a web search for you. You can also call/email a question to a medical librarian in your area. Here's the link to the Internet Public Library's "Ask a question" page: anhttp://www.ipl.org/div/askus/ Ran,

Wikipedia is NOT an authoritative source. If you are not able to find useful materials on the web, take advantage of the resources available to you at the research branch of the public library in your local area. Run a search on the applicable journal databases, or ask a librarian to assist you. The librarian can also run a web search for you. You can also call/email a question to a medical librarian in your area. Here’s the link to the Internet Public Library’s “Ask a question” page: anhttp://www.ipl.org/div/askus/

]]> By: Red Seven http://thecurvature.com/2008/03/23/offensive-remark-of-the-week-white-people-just-dont-get-enough-credit-for-stopping-the-whole-lynching-thing-edition/#comment-4019 Red Seven Fri, 28 Mar 2008 11:18:27 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/2008/03/23/offensive-remark-of-the-week-white-people-just-dont-get-enough-credit-for-stopping-the-whole-lynching-thing-edition/#comment-4019 Ran, when you're arguing against someone with real credentials and the only thing you're using to hold up your side of the conversation is a freakin' Wikipedia article, you might want to reconsider who's the crazy asshole in the debate. I'm starting to wonder what your larger "point" is in insisting that those who ran the Tuskegee experiement <b>weren't</b> purposefully infecting black men with syphillis and withholding treatment. Has it crossed your mind that there are those with racist motivations to cover up certain truths? Are you suggesting that the American oppression of black people really isn't all that bad? Is the final destination of your logic that Jeremiah Wright (and, by extension, Barack Obama) are just crazy, foaming-at-the-mouth lunatics with no real justification for their anger? Are you perhaps suggesting that Pat Buchanan has a valid point that we should consider? Ran, when you’re arguing against someone with real credentials and the only thing you’re using to hold up your side of the conversation is a freakin’ Wikipedia article, you might want to reconsider who’s the crazy asshole in the debate.

I’m starting to wonder what your larger “point” is in insisting that those who ran the Tuskegee experiement weren’t purposefully infecting black men with syphillis and withholding treatment. Has it crossed your mind that there are those with racist motivations to cover up certain truths? Are you suggesting that the American oppression of black people really isn’t all that bad? Is the final destination of your logic that Jeremiah Wright (and, by extension, Barack Obama) are just crazy, foaming-at-the-mouth lunatics with no real justification for their anger? Are you perhaps suggesting that Pat Buchanan has a valid point that we should consider?

]]> By: Ran http://thecurvature.com/2008/03/23/offensive-remark-of-the-week-white-people-just-dont-get-enough-credit-for-stopping-the-whole-lynching-thing-edition/#comment-3965 Ran Thu, 27 Mar 2008 03:47:55 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/2008/03/23/offensive-remark-of-the-week-white-people-just-dont-get-enough-credit-for-stopping-the-whole-lynching-thing-edition/#comment-3965 Al, Your last comment seems quite reasonable. As far as I can tell, certain statements in your first few comments are factually wrong in objective and IMHO important ways; but obviously Cara doesn't see it that way. And since in your last comment you don't come off as the crazy asshole that I thought you were after your first few comments (sorry), I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt here, that either I'm misunderstanding what you wrote, or that your errors were unintentional, or that you simply take as common knowledge various key facts about the experiments that for some reason aren't mentioned on Wikipedia or elsewhere on the Web that I've looked, or perhaps that there's some other reasonable explanation for the seeming errors. Al,

Your last comment seems quite reasonable. As far as I can tell, certain statements in your first few comments are factually wrong in objective and IMHO important ways; but obviously Cara doesn’t see it that way. And since in your last comment you don’t come off as the crazy asshole that I thought you were after your first few comments (sorry), I’m willing to give you the benefit of the doubt here, that either I’m misunderstanding what you wrote, or that your errors were unintentional, or that you simply take as common knowledge various key facts about the experiments that for some reason aren’t mentioned on Wikipedia or elsewhere on the Web that I’ve looked, or perhaps that there’s some other reasonable explanation for the seeming errors.

]]> By: Al http://thecurvature.com/2008/03/23/offensive-remark-of-the-week-white-people-just-dont-get-enough-credit-for-stopping-the-whole-lynching-thing-edition/#comment-3964 Al Thu, 27 Mar 2008 03:34:21 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/2008/03/23/offensive-remark-of-the-week-white-people-just-dont-get-enough-credit-for-stopping-the-whole-lynching-thing-edition/#comment-3964 Sorry, posted too fast. Ran, what is "my point" you seem to think I am trying to make? Trust me, nothing is hidden here, and what I have stated please, take it literally. As to this: "when you got into a three-paragraph huff at the suggestion that someone with a Master’s degree might occasionally misremember something" No, not a huff, simply stating that this is a topic I am both personally interested in (furthering anti racist ideas) and professionally familiar with (thus mentioning the masters). Specifically, because the issue we are discussing was used to extensively frame the introduction to my thesis. As to providing links, are you kidding me? The seminal points around this topic are the intentionally deceptive ethical guidelines in a study that is known above all else for - you guessed it - its intentionally deceptive ethical guidelines! Sorry, posted too fast.

Ran, what is “my point” you seem to think I am trying to make? Trust me, nothing is hidden here, and what I have stated please, take it literally.

As to this:

“when you got into a three-paragraph huff at the suggestion that someone with a Master’s degree might occasionally misremember something”

No, not a huff, simply stating that this is a topic I am both personally interested in (furthering anti racist ideas) and professionally familiar with (thus mentioning the masters). Specifically, because the issue we are discussing was used to extensively frame the introduction to my thesis.

As to providing links, are you kidding me? The seminal points around this topic are the intentionally deceptive ethical guidelines in a study that is known above all else for – you guessed it – its intentionally deceptive ethical guidelines!

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