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	<title>Comments on: A Crazy 24 Hours</title>
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		<title>By: Kristen</title>
		<link>http://thecurvature.com/2008/04/25/a-crazy-24-hours/#comment-4523</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Apr 2008 20:34:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecurvature.com/?p=700#comment-4523</guid>
		<description>Great post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post.</p>
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		<title>By: Jessica</title>
		<link>http://thecurvature.com/2008/04/25/a-crazy-24-hours/#comment-4518</link>
		<dc:creator>Jessica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Apr 2008 01:11:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecurvature.com/?p=700#comment-4518</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know, I&#039;m relatively new to the feminist blogosphere, and an even newer reader of the more prominent WOC blogs, so I don&#039;t have a deep history of readership or knowledge of anyone involved.  All of these recent events have been difficult for me to follow (although I have managed to piece things together through links and searches, and readings of the original posts where things started).

What I will say is that the Seal Press apology was meaningless in my opinion.  The fact that they felt it was necessary to excuse themselves by pointing out the sexism in the images was pathetic.  And whether they meant it as an attempt to excuse their actions or not (as noted in their &quot;update&quot;) doesn&#039;t change the fact that yes, it was functioning as a type of excuse.

I didn&#039;t know much previously about the opinions and work being done on immigration as a feminist issue, but from what I&#039;ve read, Amanda misappropriated the work of women of color, and that deserves its own, separate apology.  In fact, it deserves more than an apology, since more and more people are pointing out that this is an endemic problem in the feminist community.  This problem deserves attention, critical analysis, and activism to counter it.

If anything good has come from this, it&#039;s that the recent eruption of these issues has provided an opportunity for many white feminists to reflect on their own white privilege, and how ignoring racial privilege is antithetical to the goals of feminism.  I can honestly say that in my recent immersion of the feminist blogosphere, I have seen very little acknowledgment or discussion of this outside of WOC blogs, so the prominence of these recent issues has really given the a bigger stage to discussions of racism within feminism.  I would say that&#039;s long overdue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know, I&#8217;m relatively new to the feminist blogosphere, and an even newer reader of the more prominent WOC blogs, so I don&#8217;t have a deep history of readership or knowledge of anyone involved.  All of these recent events have been difficult for me to follow (although I have managed to piece things together through links and searches, and readings of the original posts where things started).</p>
<p>What I will say is that the Seal Press apology was meaningless in my opinion.  The fact that they felt it was necessary to excuse themselves by pointing out the sexism in the images was pathetic.  And whether they meant it as an attempt to excuse their actions or not (as noted in their &#8220;update&#8221;) doesn&#8217;t change the fact that yes, it was functioning as a type of excuse.</p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t know much previously about the opinions and work being done on immigration as a feminist issue, but from what I&#8217;ve read, Amanda misappropriated the work of women of color, and that deserves its own, separate apology.  In fact, it deserves more than an apology, since more and more people are pointing out that this is an endemic problem in the feminist community.  This problem deserves attention, critical analysis, and activism to counter it.</p>
<p>If anything good has come from this, it&#8217;s that the recent eruption of these issues has provided an opportunity for many white feminists to reflect on their own white privilege, and how ignoring racial privilege is antithetical to the goals of feminism.  I can honestly say that in my recent immersion of the feminist blogosphere, I have seen very little acknowledgment or discussion of this outside of WOC blogs, so the prominence of these recent issues has really given the a bigger stage to discussions of racism within feminism.  I would say that&#8217;s long overdue.</p>
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		<title>By: Ashley</title>
		<link>http://thecurvature.com/2008/04/25/a-crazy-24-hours/#comment-4512</link>
		<dc:creator>Ashley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Apr 2008 20:33:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecurvature.com/?p=700#comment-4512</guid>
		<description>Personally, I didn&#039;t find either apology satisfying, as they didn&#039;t address anything about brownfemipower (and now BlackAmazon).  Or about larger issues at stake here.  But then I find myself wondering...  What if they did apologize, in a way that addressed everything, that didn&#039;t make any excuses, that talked about both larger issues of privilege and personal responsibility?  What would I do then?  

I personally don&#039;t find satisfaction in getting &quot;revenge&quot; on people for doing shitty stuff...  But at the same time, I think a lot of people are hurt.  Bad.  And any kind of positive response to Amanda and Seal Press rubs salt into the wound.  So I think my response will be based on what the people cut deepest by this want...  and I&#039;m pretty sure that&#039;s not just forgetting about what has happened in the past couple of weeks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Personally, I didn&#8217;t find either apology satisfying, as they didn&#8217;t address anything about brownfemipower (and now BlackAmazon).  Or about larger issues at stake here.  But then I find myself wondering&#8230;  What if they did apologize, in a way that addressed everything, that didn&#8217;t make any excuses, that talked about both larger issues of privilege and personal responsibility?  What would I do then?  </p>
<p>I personally don&#8217;t find satisfaction in getting &#8220;revenge&#8221; on people for doing shitty stuff&#8230;  But at the same time, I think a lot of people are hurt.  Bad.  And any kind of positive response to Amanda and Seal Press rubs salt into the wound.  So I think my response will be based on what the people cut deepest by this want&#8230;  and I&#8217;m pretty sure that&#8217;s not just forgetting about what has happened in the past couple of weeks.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://thecurvature.com/2008/04/25/a-crazy-24-hours/#comment-4509</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Apr 2008 17:37:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecurvature.com/?p=700#comment-4509</guid>
		<description>Well I checked back on Pandagon this morning just to see what had happened since yesterday. Apparently nothing. I don&#039;t think I can read there anymore. I stopped reading Andrew Sullivan a couple of years ago for similar stuff. I&#039;d really hoped the apology meant there&#039;d be some sort of movement forward. I no longer believe there&#039;s any hope of that. Oh well I did learn about some great blogs with really interesting content from all this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well I checked back on Pandagon this morning just to see what had happened since yesterday. Apparently nothing. I don&#8217;t think I can read there anymore. I stopped reading Andrew Sullivan a couple of years ago for similar stuff. I&#8217;d really hoped the apology meant there&#8217;d be some sort of movement forward. I no longer believe there&#8217;s any hope of that. Oh well I did learn about some great blogs with really interesting content from all this.</p>
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		<title>By: Cara</title>
		<link>http://thecurvature.com/2008/04/25/a-crazy-24-hours/#comment-4508</link>
		<dc:creator>Cara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Apr 2008 15:29:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecurvature.com/?p=700#comment-4508</guid>
		<description>Astraea, I agree.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Astraea, I agree.</p>
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		<title>By: Astraea</title>
		<link>http://thecurvature.com/2008/04/25/a-crazy-24-hours/#comment-4507</link>
		<dc:creator>Astraea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Apr 2008 15:24:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecurvature.com/?p=700#comment-4507</guid>
		<description>GallingGalla, her history with racist comments is a point that keeps getting lost. Especially with people who are new to this or haven&#039;t paid much attention.  They seem to wonder why all this fuss over one thing.  I remember a recent call-out on Alas about her using the term &quot;ayatollah&quot; as stand in for &quot;worst religious misogynist boogyman evah&quot;.  

I have other issues with many things Amanda has done which just reinforce my lack of support or belief in her good faith, but I don&#039;t want to use Cara&#039;s post as a place to air all my grievances.  

Point being, her blindness to privilege is not a new thing or a one-time thing, and while I may keep an eye out for her to learn something from this, I don&#039;t feel any inclination to support her.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>GallingGalla, her history with racist comments is a point that keeps getting lost. Especially with people who are new to this or haven&#8217;t paid much attention.  They seem to wonder why all this fuss over one thing.  I remember a recent call-out on Alas about her using the term &#8220;ayatollah&#8221; as stand in for &#8220;worst religious misogynist boogyman evah&#8221;.  </p>
<p>I have other issues with many things Amanda has done which just reinforce my lack of support or belief in her good faith, but I don&#8217;t want to use Cara&#8217;s post as a place to air all my grievances.  </p>
<p>Point being, her blindness to privilege is not a new thing or a one-time thing, and while I may keep an eye out for her to learn something from this, I don&#8217;t feel any inclination to support her.</p>
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		<title>By: GallingGalla</title>
		<link>http://thecurvature.com/2008/04/25/a-crazy-24-hours/#comment-4506</link>
		<dc:creator>GallingGalla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Apr 2008 14:03:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecurvature.com/?p=700#comment-4506</guid>
		<description>I gave up on Pandagon nearly a year ago.  During the year that I read her blog, she was called out on racist statements / assumptions three or four times, and each time, she got defensive and accused those who called her out of personally attacking her, and commenters would gang up on the person who called her out.  If that person was a WoC, inevitably some white commenter(s) would throw out the &quot;Why do you have to be angry all the time?&quot; crap.

And, then, I also realized that in Amanda&#039;s little world, there&#039;s no such thing as a trans* person.  If it weren&#039;t for Pam Spaulding&#039;s cross-posts, I doubt that the word &quot;trans&quot; would have even appeared once on her blog.

So, yeah, &quot;How dare you question my awesomeness and magnanimity? ... Trans people - what&#039;s that, someone on a high-fat diet?&quot;

Her apology doesn&#039;t mean much to me, nor does Seal Press&#039;s.  The loss of Brownfemipower and Black Amazon from the blogosphere means a lot more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I gave up on Pandagon nearly a year ago.  During the year that I read her blog, she was called out on racist statements / assumptions three or four times, and each time, she got defensive and accused those who called her out of personally attacking her, and commenters would gang up on the person who called her out.  If that person was a WoC, inevitably some white commenter(s) would throw out the &#8220;Why do you have to be angry all the time?&#8221; crap.</p>
<p>And, then, I also realized that in Amanda&#8217;s little world, there&#8217;s no such thing as a trans* person.  If it weren&#8217;t for Pam Spaulding&#8217;s cross-posts, I doubt that the word &#8220;trans&#8221; would have even appeared once on her blog.</p>
<p>So, yeah, &#8220;How dare you question my awesomeness and magnanimity? &#8230; Trans people &#8211; what&#8217;s that, someone on a high-fat diet?&#8221;</p>
<p>Her apology doesn&#8217;t mean much to me, nor does Seal Press&#8217;s.  The loss of Brownfemipower and Black Amazon from the blogosphere means a lot more.</p>
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		<title>By: Astraea</title>
		<link>http://thecurvature.com/2008/04/25/a-crazy-24-hours/#comment-4505</link>
		<dc:creator>Astraea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Apr 2008 13:13:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecurvature.com/?p=700#comment-4505</guid>
		<description>Seal has posted a second apology after getting criticism on the first.  But they didn&#039;t even acknowledge the problems in the first apology nor have they acknowledged their real issues. I don&#039;t think Seal Press has done anything except damage control.  And while we really need feminist publishers, we don&#039;t need them at the expense of WOC.

Personally, I&#039;m done with Pandagon.  I do hope Amanda makes an effort to reach out and genuinely engage the entire issue.  Right now the least I wish she&#039;d do is make it clear on her apology post that all the people continuing to be hostile to people who called out the images are NOT helping. It&#039;s ugly over there, and that has confirmed my decision to discontinue reading at Pandagon for now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seal has posted a second apology after getting criticism on the first.  But they didn&#8217;t even acknowledge the problems in the first apology nor have they acknowledged their real issues. I don&#8217;t think Seal Press has done anything except damage control.  And while we really need feminist publishers, we don&#8217;t need them at the expense of WOC.</p>
<p>Personally, I&#8217;m done with Pandagon.  I do hope Amanda makes an effort to reach out and genuinely engage the entire issue.  Right now the least I wish she&#8217;d do is make it clear on her apology post that all the people continuing to be hostile to people who called out the images are NOT helping. It&#8217;s ugly over there, and that has confirmed my decision to discontinue reading at Pandagon for now.</p>
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		<title>By: prof black woman</title>
		<link>http://thecurvature.com/2008/04/25/a-crazy-24-hours/#comment-4504</link>
		<dc:creator>prof black woman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Apr 2008 11:53:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecurvature.com/?p=700#comment-4504</guid>
		<description>Thanks for linking back to my &quot;don&#039;t mess with feminist press&quot; update to the Seal Press thing with this one. If you hadn&#039;t sent the ping, I would have sent people here to read this. It is very thorough.

Three things tho:
1. according to Brooke Warner, Seal Press is not a feminist press and since this is being used to justify why we should not be questioning them, I think it is important to make that clear
2. The Editorial Team is two white women, there are no woc on the Editorial team even if a woc works there.
3. Brooke says they cannot afford to hire right now and that they have lost several positions during the transition to Perseus Group. At the same time, and I say this in my follow up post &quot;why seal press is off the syllabus pt. 2&quot; she uses this as an excuse to make no commitment to diversity hiring in the future - which is what I called for.

I for one am a little tired of the &quot;I didn&#039;t mean it&quot; excuse and I suggested to Brooke on my blog that she read an article about why that excuse upholds racism even when it is true. I have an even harder time swallowing &quot;I didn&#039;t mean it&quot; when this is the third book cover that has caused controversy, and where multiple meetings were called to discuss changing the cover because Amanda was finally responding to feedback that it was offensive.

Anyway . . . thanks for the ping and the link. I know my readers will want to read our post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for linking back to my &#8220;don&#8217;t mess with feminist press&#8221; update to the Seal Press thing with this one. If you hadn&#8217;t sent the ping, I would have sent people here to read this. It is very thorough.</p>
<p>Three things tho:<br />
1. according to Brooke Warner, Seal Press is not a feminist press and since this is being used to justify why we should not be questioning them, I think it is important to make that clear<br />
2. The Editorial Team is two white women, there are no woc on the Editorial team even if a woc works there.<br />
3. Brooke says they cannot afford to hire right now and that they have lost several positions during the transition to Perseus Group. At the same time, and I say this in my follow up post &#8220;why seal press is off the syllabus pt. 2&#8243; she uses this as an excuse to make no commitment to diversity hiring in the future &#8211; which is what I called for.</p>
<p>I for one am a little tired of the &#8220;I didn&#8217;t mean it&#8221; excuse and I suggested to Brooke on my blog that she read an article about why that excuse upholds racism even when it is true. I have an even harder time swallowing &#8220;I didn&#8217;t mean it&#8221; when this is the third book cover that has caused controversy, and where multiple meetings were called to discuss changing the cover because Amanda was finally responding to feedback that it was offensive.</p>
<p>Anyway . . . thanks for the ping and the link. I know my readers will want to read our post.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://thecurvature.com/2008/04/25/a-crazy-24-hours/#comment-4502</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Apr 2008 05:01:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecurvature.com/?p=700#comment-4502</guid>
		<description>This writing stuff, it is hard.
I didn&#039;t say and I meant to, is that I think what the women of color bloggers was asking for was in all truth SO not a big thing. I mean what I kept hearing was that the people who were angry didn&#039;t want her to stop writing, or talking, or working on the subject. The request was to acknowledge that there were others who had done the heavey lifting on the subject and deserved some credit. That really didn&#039;t seem like much and if that request had been honored it might have completly avoided everything that followed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This writing stuff, it is hard.<br />
I didn&#8217;t say and I meant to, is that I think what the women of color bloggers was asking for was in all truth SO not a big thing. I mean what I kept hearing was that the people who were angry didn&#8217;t want her to stop writing, or talking, or working on the subject. The request was to acknowledge that there were others who had done the heavey lifting on the subject and deserved some credit. That really didn&#8217;t seem like much and if that request had been honored it might have completly avoided everything that followed.</p>
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