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	<title>Comments on: Truth.</title>
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		<title>By: Day of Blogs &#187; 31: The Importance of Listening</title>
		<link>http://thecurvature.com/2008/05/13/truth/#comment-6426</link>
		<dc:creator>Day of Blogs &#187; 31: The Importance of Listening</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jul 2008 04:16:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecurvature.com/?p=726#comment-6426</guid>
		<description>[...] A post request from Kristen: Or the importance of listening and accepting a rape victims story as a separate issue from placing legal responsibility on the perpetrator. Wouldn’t it be nice if a victim could tell hir story without everyone leaping to talk about the guilt or innocence of the perpetrator? Even for like 15 seconds? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] A post request from Kristen: Or the importance of listening and accepting a rape victims story as a separate issue from placing legal responsibility on the perpetrator. Wouldn’t it be nice if a victim could tell hir story without everyone leaping to talk about the guilt or innocence of the perpetrator? Even for like 15 seconds? [...]</p>
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		<title>By: SunlessNick</title>
		<link>http://thecurvature.com/2008/05/13/truth/#comment-4942</link>
		<dc:creator>SunlessNick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 16:12:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecurvature.com/?p=726#comment-4942</guid>
		<description>It strikes me that this is yet another factor unique to rape.  Just as victims of, say mugging, are less likely to have to field excuses for the attackers&#039; behaviour, there&#039;s less censure if they don&#039;t report it.  How often is it said, &quot;For the sake of future mugging victims, you must report your mugger?&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It strikes me that this is yet another factor unique to rape.  Just as victims of, say mugging, are less likely to have to field excuses for the attackers&#8217; behaviour, there&#8217;s less censure if they don&#8217;t report it.  How often is it said, &#8220;For the sake of future mugging victims, you must report your mugger?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: MariaS</title>
		<link>http://thecurvature.com/2008/05/13/truth/#comment-4940</link>
		<dc:creator>MariaS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 15:43:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecurvature.com/?p=726#comment-4940</guid>
		<description>I read this recently - it is a simple yet powerful thing to know about dealing with &amp; supporting survivors:
http://crisisworker.blogspot.com/2008/04/secondary-victims.html

&quot;I was recently in the ER with a young woman. She was with her mother and sister. She was very open to assistance and seemed to have very good support from her family. She was not interested in reporting the crime to law enforcement. She could articulate why she was making this decision . . . and had a pretty clear idea what she did want as well.

I could see from her mother&#039;s reactions that mom didn&#039;t really agree. I think the mother was hoping I would have some magic words to reverse her adult daughter&#039;s decision. There was a quiet moment when I could talk to the mom on her own. I explained that it was important that her daughter be given the opportunity to make decisions for herself . . . that the perpetrator had taken the right to make decisions away from her daughter and that she would &quot;heal&quot; better, faster if we could restore decision making back to her, even if we don&#039;t agree with those decisions.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read this recently &#8211; it is a simple yet powerful thing to know about dealing with &amp; supporting survivors:<br />
<a href="http://crisisworker.blogspot.com/2008/04/secondary-victims.html" rel="nofollow">http://crisisworker.blogspot.com/2008/04/secondary-victims.html</a></p>
<p>&#8220;I was recently in the ER with a young woman. She was with her mother and sister. She was very open to assistance and seemed to have very good support from her family. She was not interested in reporting the crime to law enforcement. She could articulate why she was making this decision . . . and had a pretty clear idea what she did want as well.</p>
<p>I could see from her mother&#8217;s reactions that mom didn&#8217;t really agree. I think the mother was hoping I would have some magic words to reverse her adult daughter&#8217;s decision. There was a quiet moment when I could talk to the mom on her own. I explained that it was important that her daughter be given the opportunity to make decisions for herself . . . that the perpetrator had taken the right to make decisions away from her daughter and that she would &#8220;heal&#8221; better, faster if we could restore decision making back to her, even if we don&#8217;t agree with those decisions.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Cara</title>
		<link>http://thecurvature.com/2008/05/13/truth/#comment-4919</link>
		<dc:creator>Cara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 16:45:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecurvature.com/?p=726#comment-4919</guid>
		<description>Sara, I&#039;m glad that you did the right thing for you.  It was a brave thing to do, and it was absolutely right of you to do what you felt would most bring you peace.  And I agree that there are very good reasons to report.

That doesn&#039;t mean your experience is the same as everyone else&#039;s, and it&#039;s arrogant to assume otherwise.  So while you don&#039;t &quot;give a fuck how difficult it is,&quot; I&#039;m not going to let you stick around and insult other rape survivors because they didn&#039;t take the same action as you.  I&#039;m not going to let you stick around and say that women who don&#039;t report their rapes -- and you know, this isn&#039;t even about me anymore -- didn&#039;t do the right thing, by making the decision to protect themselves.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://thecurvature.com/2008/04/11/victims-dont-owe-you-anything/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Everything else I could have to say to your remarks, I already said here.&lt;/a&gt;  

And you are getting your warning.  Not because I disagree with you, but because you are being insulting.  Saying what you did and how you feel about the decision is different from pointing fingers at those who did differently.  The former is absolutely in every way allowed.  The latter is not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sara, I&#8217;m glad that you did the right thing for you.  It was a brave thing to do, and it was absolutely right of you to do what you felt would most bring you peace.  And I agree that there are very good reasons to report.</p>
<p>That doesn&#8217;t mean your experience is the same as everyone else&#8217;s, and it&#8217;s arrogant to assume otherwise.  So while you don&#8217;t &#8220;give a fuck how difficult it is,&#8221; I&#8217;m not going to let you stick around and insult other rape survivors because they didn&#8217;t take the same action as you.  I&#8217;m not going to let you stick around and say that women who don&#8217;t report their rapes &#8212; and you know, this isn&#8217;t even about me anymore &#8212; didn&#8217;t do the right thing, by making the decision to protect themselves.  <a href="http://thecurvature.com/2008/04/11/victims-dont-owe-you-anything/" rel="nofollow">Everything else I could have to say to your remarks, I already said here.</a>  </p>
<p>And you are getting your warning.  Not because I disagree with you, but because you are being insulting.  Saying what you did and how you feel about the decision is different from pointing fingers at those who did differently.  The former is absolutely in every way allowed.  The latter is not.</p>
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		<title>By: Sara</title>
		<link>http://thecurvature.com/2008/05/13/truth/#comment-4917</link>
		<dc:creator>Sara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 16:32:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecurvature.com/?p=726#comment-4917</guid>
		<description>OK, I&#039;m going to share my own story here because its relevant.  At 17 I was a victim of a date rape by my boyfriend at that time.  When I was 24, I was gang-raped and pummelled by a group of 5 assholes in a park.  In the 2nd crime, I was in a coma for 2 weeks and in the ICU for another month.  I had to eat thru a straw.

 In both cases the police were skeptical, tried to hint that it was my fault, tried to tell me there was no crime.  

I went to court on both cases and was told that I was a liar by the defendant as well as his attorney whores.

I know what embarrassment, humiliation, and being called a liar feels like.  But when you compare those feelings to the feelings of getting raped, its no contest.  Yes its hard to come forward and you will suffer if you try to press charges.  But that sufffering is absolutely MINISCULE compared to the suffering of future rape victims.  Standing up for whats right is very hard, but its no excuse to not do whats in your power to put these animals away.

If I didnt stand up, who would?  If not now, then when?  After these guys run up 50 more rapes on their rap sheets?  

I mean really what the fuck are we talking about here?  Once you are raped, its about stopping the monster from doing it again.  I dont give a fuck how difficult it is, its not as &quot;difficult&quot; as getting raped by a repeat sexual predator.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, I&#8217;m going to share my own story here because its relevant.  At 17 I was a victim of a date rape by my boyfriend at that time.  When I was 24, I was gang-raped and pummelled by a group of 5 assholes in a park.  In the 2nd crime, I was in a coma for 2 weeks and in the ICU for another month.  I had to eat thru a straw.</p>
<p> In both cases the police were skeptical, tried to hint that it was my fault, tried to tell me there was no crime.  </p>
<p>I went to court on both cases and was told that I was a liar by the defendant as well as his attorney whores.</p>
<p>I know what embarrassment, humiliation, and being called a liar feels like.  But when you compare those feelings to the feelings of getting raped, its no contest.  Yes its hard to come forward and you will suffer if you try to press charges.  But that sufffering is absolutely MINISCULE compared to the suffering of future rape victims.  Standing up for whats right is very hard, but its no excuse to not do whats in your power to put these animals away.</p>
<p>If I didnt stand up, who would?  If not now, then when?  After these guys run up 50 more rapes on their rap sheets?  </p>
<p>I mean really what the fuck are we talking about here?  Once you are raped, its about stopping the monster from doing it again.  I dont give a fuck how difficult it is, its not as &#8220;difficult&#8221; as getting raped by a repeat sexual predator.</p>
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		<title>By: Cara</title>
		<link>http://thecurvature.com/2008/05/13/truth/#comment-4915</link>
		<dc:creator>Cara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 15:58:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecurvature.com/?p=726#comment-4915</guid>
		<description>No Sara, you didn&#039;t say that it was better for women to be branded liars.  You just stuck your fingers in your ears and ignored the fact that THAT IS WHAT HAPPENS.

Again.  Don&#039;t. Have. The. Time.

And thank you, Kristen.  What a horrific story.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No Sara, you didn&#8217;t say that it was better for women to be branded liars.  You just stuck your fingers in your ears and ignored the fact that THAT IS WHAT HAPPENS.</p>
<p>Again.  Don&#8217;t. Have. The. Time.</p>
<p>And thank you, Kristen.  What a horrific story.</p>
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		<title>By: Lyndsay</title>
		<link>http://thecurvature.com/2008/05/13/truth/#comment-4913</link>
		<dc:creator>Lyndsay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 15:15:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecurvature.com/?p=726#comment-4913</guid>
		<description>Wow, we need to somehow campaign the government for better police training as much as anything else. It appears rape is not a crime in the justice system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, we need to somehow campaign the government for better police training as much as anything else. It appears rape is not a crime in the justice system.</p>
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		<title>By: Kristen</title>
		<link>http://thecurvature.com/2008/05/13/truth/#comment-4912</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 15:01:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecurvature.com/?p=726#comment-4912</guid>
		<description>Translation:

&quot;we have no choice&quot; &quot;there are guaranteed future victims&quot;

Combined with:

&quot;So its really not about the first victim as much as its about a lifelong pattern of continuous victims, which will surely come to pass if you decide not to press charges.&quot;

Translates to:

Victims must report because unless they report there will be more victims.

The logical conclusion of which is:

The consequence &quot;more victims&quot; determined by the action of the current victim.

Hence,

The current victim is responsible for allowing future rapes to occur.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Translation:</p>
<p>&#8220;we have no choice&#8221; &#8220;there are guaranteed future victims&#8221;</p>
<p>Combined with:</p>
<p>&#8220;So its really not about the first victim as much as its about a lifelong pattern of continuous victims, which will surely come to pass if you decide not to press charges.&#8221;</p>
<p>Translates to:</p>
<p>Victims must report because unless they report there will be more victims.</p>
<p>The logical conclusion of which is:</p>
<p>The consequence &#8220;more victims&#8221; determined by the action of the current victim.</p>
<p>Hence,</p>
<p>The current victim is responsible for allowing future rapes to occur.</p>
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		<title>By: Sara</title>
		<link>http://thecurvature.com/2008/05/13/truth/#comment-4911</link>
		<dc:creator>Sara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 14:49:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecurvature.com/?p=726#comment-4911</guid>
		<description>Yeah so explain to me how that translates into: &quot;victims are at fault for rapes&quot;

Those 2 statements are not even remotely similar.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah so explain to me how that translates into: &#8220;victims are at fault for rapes&#8221;</p>
<p>Those 2 statements are not even remotely similar.</p>
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		<title>By: Kristen</title>
		<link>http://thecurvature.com/2008/05/13/truth/#comment-4910</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 14:44:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecurvature.com/?p=726#comment-4910</guid>
		<description>&quot;But the 100% guaranteed alternative of further victims is just so unpalatable and so dreadful we have no choice.&quot;

Those are your words, not mine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;But the 100% guaranteed alternative of further victims is just so unpalatable and so dreadful we have no choice.&#8221;</p>
<p>Those are your words, not mine.</p>
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