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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Not In My Shower&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://thecurvature.com/2008/08/11/not-in-my-shower/</link>
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		<title>By: Because the &#8220;Not in My Shower&#8221; Campaign Worked So Well : The Curvature</title>
		<link>http://thecurvature.com/2008/08/11/not-in-my-shower/#comment-9624</link>
		<dc:creator>Because the &#8220;Not in My Shower&#8221; Campaign Worked So Well : The Curvature</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jan 2009 20:09:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecurvature.com/?p=1178#comment-9624</guid>
		<description>[...] may remember the transphobic &#8220;Not in My Shower&#8221; campaign in Maryland, which aimed to repeal a measure that allowed transgender individuals to use whichever bathroom [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] may remember the transphobic &#8220;Not in My Shower&#8221; campaign in Maryland, which aimed to repeal a measure that allowed transgender individuals to use whichever bathroom [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Maryland &#8220;Showers&#8221; Campaign Shot Down By Court : The Curvature</title>
		<link>http://thecurvature.com/2008/08/11/not-in-my-shower/#comment-7428</link>
		<dc:creator>Maryland &#8220;Showers&#8221; Campaign Shot Down By Court : The Curvature</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 16:04:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecurvature.com/?p=1178#comment-7428</guid>
		<description>[...] one month ago, I wrote about the &#8220;Not In My Shower&#8221; campaign being run by a conservative group in Maryland.  It was a piece of blatant bigotry, designed to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] one month ago, I wrote about the &#8220;Not In My Shower&#8221; campaign being run by a conservative group in Maryland.  It was a piece of blatant bigotry, designed to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Lisa Harney</title>
		<link>http://thecurvature.com/2008/08/11/not-in-my-shower/#comment-6797</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa Harney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 02:56:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecurvature.com/?p=1178#comment-6797</guid>
		<description>I used to work at a bar and would often close.

The rules for closing the bar were that one of the regular male customers had to basically be second to last to leave, and he&#039;d check the restrooms (plural - men and women) to make sure that a predator wasn&#039;t hiding in either one before I could actually lock the doors.

The law shouldn&#039;t put the burden of protecting women&#039;s restrooms from rapists and other predators on trans women - we have enough shit to deal with without also being held responsible for acts by people who aren&#039;t us. In fact, I&#039;m pretty sure that the law doesn&#039;t actually allow would-be rapists to enter the women&#039;s restroom in the first place, that there is no community that has instituted laws protecting trans rights (including the right to use the proper restroom) where there&#039;s been a plague of men in dresses committing rape in the restrooms, and some cities and states have had these laws on the books for &lt;em&gt;years&lt;/em&gt;.

No law will stop a man who wants to rape a woman from raping a woman. It just won&#039;t happen. The laws against rape &lt;em&gt;now&lt;/em&gt; don&#039;t stop men, and why is a rapist who is prepared to violently violate a woman&#039;s body somehow going to respect a law that explicitly forbids him from entering a restroom in the first place? It&#039;s not like the iconic figure-in-a-dress symbol on the women&#039;s restroom is now or has ever been a magical talisman that stops men from entering.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I used to work at a bar and would often close.</p>
<p>The rules for closing the bar were that one of the regular male customers had to basically be second to last to leave, and he&#8217;d check the restrooms (plural &#8211; men and women) to make sure that a predator wasn&#8217;t hiding in either one before I could actually lock the doors.</p>
<p>The law shouldn&#8217;t put the burden of protecting women&#8217;s restrooms from rapists and other predators on trans women &#8211; we have enough shit to deal with without also being held responsible for acts by people who aren&#8217;t us. In fact, I&#8217;m pretty sure that the law doesn&#8217;t actually allow would-be rapists to enter the women&#8217;s restroom in the first place, that there is no community that has instituted laws protecting trans rights (including the right to use the proper restroom) where there&#8217;s been a plague of men in dresses committing rape in the restrooms, and some cities and states have had these laws on the books for <em>years</em>.</p>
<p>No law will stop a man who wants to rape a woman from raping a woman. It just won&#8217;t happen. The laws against rape <em>now</em> don&#8217;t stop men, and why is a rapist who is prepared to violently violate a woman&#8217;s body somehow going to respect a law that explicitly forbids him from entering a restroom in the first place? It&#8217;s not like the iconic figure-in-a-dress symbol on the women&#8217;s restroom is now or has ever been a magical talisman that stops men from entering.</p>
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		<title>By: Cara</title>
		<link>http://thecurvature.com/2008/08/11/not-in-my-shower/#comment-6788</link>
		<dc:creator>Cara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 21:53:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecurvature.com/?p=1178#comment-6788</guid>
		<description>B Moe, you &lt;i&gt;do&lt;/i&gt; realize that many transgender women &quot;pass&quot; as cisgender, don&#039;t you?  And that there are plenty of more feminine men who actually could put on a dress and probably pass for a cisgender woman if they really wanted to be a ruthless predator and come rape me in a public bathroom?  How about the fact that transgender women both who do and don&#039;t &quot;pass&quot; particularly well still use women&#039;s bathrooms, and therefore a sexual predator could currently be exploiting that already?  Or that, as Lisa said, a man doesn&#039;t  have to put on a dress to go rape a woman in a public bathroom, because it has happened already, and there&#039;s no evidence that unisex bathrooms -- of which there are many in the world -- are more likely to be the site of violence.

I said in the post that Lisa Harney addressed your argument.  Please read that and actually address what she had to say before commenting again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>B Moe, you <i>do</i> realize that many transgender women &#8220;pass&#8221; as cisgender, don&#8217;t you?  And that there are plenty of more feminine men who actually could put on a dress and probably pass for a cisgender woman if they really wanted to be a ruthless predator and come rape me in a public bathroom?  How about the fact that transgender women both who do and don&#8217;t &#8220;pass&#8221; particularly well still use women&#8217;s bathrooms, and therefore a sexual predator could currently be exploiting that already?  Or that, as Lisa said, a man doesn&#8217;t  have to put on a dress to go rape a woman in a public bathroom, because it has happened already, and there&#8217;s no evidence that unisex bathrooms &#8212; of which there are many in the world &#8212; are more likely to be the site of violence.</p>
<p>I said in the post that Lisa Harney addressed your argument.  Please read that and actually address what she had to say before commenting again.</p>
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		<title>By: B Moe</title>
		<link>http://thecurvature.com/2008/08/11/not-in-my-shower/#comment-6786</link>
		<dc:creator>B Moe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 21:44:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecurvature.com/?p=1178#comment-6786</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Firstly, they’re using false but established stereotypes that transgender people are sexual predators. &lt;/i&gt;

I think the primary fear is of sexual predators pretending to be transgendered and exploiting the law.  I agree that true transgendered wouldn&#039;t be a threat, and sexual assaults by them aren&#039;t an issue, but unless carefully written and enforced  this could open the door for truly ruthless predators pretending to be transgendered, putting innocents at risk and reinforcing negative stereotypes, however undeserved.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Firstly, they’re using false but established stereotypes that transgender people are sexual predators. </i></p>
<p>I think the primary fear is of sexual predators pretending to be transgendered and exploiting the law.  I agree that true transgendered wouldn&#8217;t be a threat, and sexual assaults by them aren&#8217;t an issue, but unless carefully written and enforced  this could open the door for truly ruthless predators pretending to be transgendered, putting innocents at risk and reinforcing negative stereotypes, however undeserved.</p>
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		<title>By: Lemur</title>
		<link>http://thecurvature.com/2008/08/11/not-in-my-shower/#comment-6755</link>
		<dc:creator>Lemur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 22:10:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecurvature.com/?p=1178#comment-6755</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t understand why it&#039;s so hard to see &quot;person who is different from me&quot; as &quot;person, period.&quot;
I suspect I never will. 
Great post, Cara.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t understand why it&#8217;s so hard to see &#8220;person who is different from me&#8221; as &#8220;person, period.&#8221;<br />
I suspect I never will.<br />
Great post, Cara.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://thecurvature.com/2008/08/11/not-in-my-shower/#comment-6752</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 03:58:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecurvature.com/?p=1178#comment-6752</guid>
		<description>I agree with GallingGalla re: people hiding their true bigoted feelings

in the Islamophobic incident in Camden NSW most people basically said that they agreed with the main anti-Islam campaigner but were too scared of racial vilification laws to say it explicitly</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with GallingGalla re: people hiding their true bigoted feelings</p>
<p>in the Islamophobic incident in Camden NSW most people basically said that they agreed with the main anti-Islam campaigner but were too scared of racial vilification laws to say it explicitly</p>
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		<title>By: SunlessNick</title>
		<link>http://thecurvature.com/2008/08/11/not-in-my-shower/#comment-6750</link>
		<dc:creator>SunlessNick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 00:13:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecurvature.com/?p=1178#comment-6750</guid>
		<description>Excellent post.  I don&#039;t have anything more cogent to say other than props though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent post.  I don&#8217;t have anything more cogent to say other than props though.</p>
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		<title>By: Cara</title>
		<link>http://thecurvature.com/2008/08/11/not-in-my-shower/#comment-6747</link>
		<dc:creator>Cara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 22:12:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecurvature.com/?p=1178#comment-6747</guid>
		<description>Agreed, GallingGalla, and there&#039;s no doubt in the world that this is a problem.  But history also tells us that people are a lot more reluctant to &lt;i&gt;take away&lt;/i&gt; rights once they&#039;ve been granted than they are to vote against rights &lt;i&gt;before&lt;/i&gt; they&#039;re instated.  My guess is that it&#039;s a psychological thing -- voting against rights that a person doesn&#039;t already have can just seem like maintaining the status quo and privilege makes them feel like there won&#039;t really be an impact.  But it seems a lot harder for them to take rights back, because it&#039;s easier for them to see that there will be an impact, and I think it&#039;s probably because it&#039;s more difficult to not see yourself as an oppressor in those circumstances.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed, GallingGalla, and there&#8217;s no doubt in the world that this is a problem.  But history also tells us that people are a lot more reluctant to <i>take away</i> rights once they&#8217;ve been granted than they are to vote against rights <i>before</i> they&#8217;re instated.  My guess is that it&#8217;s a psychological thing &#8212; voting against rights that a person doesn&#8217;t already have can just seem like maintaining the status quo and privilege makes them feel like there won&#8217;t really be an impact.  But it seems a lot harder for them to take rights back, because it&#8217;s easier for them to see that there will be an impact, and I think it&#8217;s probably because it&#8217;s more difficult to not see yourself as an oppressor in those circumstances.</p>
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		<title>By: GallingGalla</title>
		<link>http://thecurvature.com/2008/08/11/not-in-my-shower/#comment-6746</link>
		<dc:creator>GallingGalla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 21:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecurvature.com/?p=1178#comment-6746</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;polling shows that people generally support legislation to protect against discrimination based on gender identity&lt;/i&gt;

I don&#039;t really trust polls.  There&#039;s too much evidence that people often give the answers that they think are &quot;politically correct&quot; to poll takers, rather than saying what they actually believe.  Also, no one asks how *important* these issues are to people who are privileged enough to not have to think about it -- how many cis people, upon hearing of Angie Zapata&#039;s murder, have an attitude of &quot;Yeah, ain&#039;t that horrible?  Now, let&#039;s put more burgers on the barbie!!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>polling shows that people generally support legislation to protect against discrimination based on gender identity</i></p>
<p>I don&#8217;t really trust polls.  There&#8217;s too much evidence that people often give the answers that they think are &#8220;politically correct&#8221; to poll takers, rather than saying what they actually believe.  Also, no one asks how *important* these issues are to people who are privileged enough to not have to think about it &#8212; how many cis people, upon hearing of Angie Zapata&#8217;s murder, have an attitude of &#8220;Yeah, ain&#8217;t that horrible?  Now, let&#8217;s put more burgers on the barbie!!&#8221;</p>
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