Advertisement
“A dream you dream alone is only a dream; a dream you dream together is reality.” — Yoko Ono
Sep
1
When Men Who Rape Aren’t Rapists
Filed Under assholes, misogyny, patriarchy, rape and sexual assault, violence against women and girls | Posted by Cara |
So this morning I woke up to a comment from “Laura” on this old post about a judge who called a victim “stupid” while sentencing the man who said he would give her a ride home late at night and then raped her.
I feel sorry for what my husband Stefano did to the young girl. He is also sorry for what he has done to her. Me and Stefano both wish the young women a good and peacefull life and he wishes that he nevered offered her a ride and most of all wished he nevered hurted her. I know you guys think Stefano is a rapist and sick for what he has done. But Stefano is nothing like that. At the time he ment the young women Stefano was high and some time people do crazy shit to there selfs or in this case to someone eles with out knowing what they are really doing. Stefano is actually a really loving, carring, friendly, easy going and most of a big family guy. We been together 1yr and two months before he went into prison. He never showed any violence towards me or to anyone. He always helped out his sick dad when his dad needy something done around the house or the car, help his mom pay off the nice big dream home that his mom always wanted. He nevered miss one of his nefu’s soccer games and was always teaching him things to. Stefano is a wonderful husband to me and a great dad to his soon to be 3yr daughter. also helped out his friends and even the homeless people sometimes to. Now Stefano and his family are paying the price for what Stefano has done to the young women. For now where all hurting in some kinda of way because we all need him and we all miss him alot. A little girl needs her dad to be around and now sometimes my and Stefano’s daughter gets very depressed because her daddy isn’t home. So Im glade Stefano didn’t 5yrs in prison. Hopefully he’ll be out soon. So me and the rest of the family can be truly happy agian. I also do think what the judge said about the girl being stupid and the other shit he said about her. Was not nice and it even put me in shock what he said but I also think she should been a little more wiser and should of waited untill the morning to take the bus to the place she was going to instead of going at night time when crazy people are out and about or when people are sometimes in a bad condition like being high or even drunk. I would never go down town at night time. Anyone can think what the like about Stefano but only me and his family know who Stefano really is. Stefano is my husband and I love him very much and we have a very good relationship. I always feel safe when he is around me and our daughter. His not a rapist but only a man that made a very terrible hurtfull misttake to a young women and he is truly sorry for what he as done.
I can’t say for sure whether or not the comment is legitimate, though it does strike me that way. I’m going to assume for the purposes of this post that the rapist’s wife actually wrote this comment (especially since the IP matches the right city) — but even if she didn’t, I think it’s an interesting case study in the rationalization of rape. So please read the rest of the post as hypothetical when indicating that Laura who wrote this comment actually is the wife of Stefano Priolo.
This is, pretty clearly from the explicit and repeated argument in the comment, the “he’s not really like that” defense. Laura seems to take particular issue, interestingly enough, with using the word “rapist” to describe her husband.
Why? Well, because, as I said, he’s apparently “not like that.” We don’t know the real Stefano Priolo. It’s impressive cognitive dissonance. Notice that the word “rape” is not used once to describe “what Stefano did.” Even though that’s the crime for which he received his conviction, even though everything in the comment seems to be acknowledging that what Stefano did was an act of sexual violence. But not “rape,” somehow.
This is a common view, actually. People seem to think that something only counts as rape if committed by someone they don’t like. When it’s someone you know? Someone who may have done other, good things with his life? Can’t be rape. Must be something else. A “mistake,” perhaps.
Rape is not a “mistake.” It is something that is wrong to do. It is something that should always be regretted on the part of the rapist, not that it does any good. But to say “mistake” indicates that the decision was made simply out of poor judgment, and that falls a little too closely to “accident.” When you defend yourself or someone else with “but it was a mistake,” it’s usually just a sly way of saying “but I didn’t mean it, and so it doesn’t really count.” You don’t mistakenly pick up a woman in your car, drive her to the cemetery and rape her. When doing so, you certainly do “mean it.” It is a deliberate choice. So no, Priolo did not make a terrible and hurtful mistake. He made the terrible and hurtful decision to rape a woman.
And that, regardless of anything else, makes him a rapist. That is the definition of rapist: one who commits rape. Frankly, I don’t give a shit what else you do with your life. You can be Ghandi or Mother Theresa for all I care. And it doesn’t matter how high and out of character you were at the time. If you rape someone, you’re still a rapist. Love your kid and your wife and help the homeless all you like. That just makes you a rapist who loves your kid and your wife and helps the homeless.
While it is of course heartbreaking that a little girl should have to grow up without a father, in this case the father is the only one to blame. And how selfish to be pleased that he got a short sentence for the sake of one’s own happiness. Fuck the woman he raped. Fuck the society that will be more dangerous by his ass being out on the street. And let’s forget that the only person responsible here is Stefano Priolo. Of course I feel for a little girl whose father is in jail for rape — it’s not her fault that her father is a rapist. But I’m still hardly convinced that it’s in her best interest to have a rapist raising her, regardless of whether or not he ever has been or ever will be violent towards his daughter. Failing to be violent, sexually or otherwise, towards any one person doesn’t negate other violence. And just because your husband has never raped you, it doesn’t mean he’s not a rapist, despite your best efforts to fool yourself.
Of course, I don’t think that even Laura believes her own bullshit. If she did, she wouldn’t feel the need to throw in the victim-blaming along with the regret and pleas to not think of her husband as someone who rapes other people. The victim should have waited for the bus. After all, you never know when Stefano might be driving around high waiting to rape you, stupid woman! And Laura is smart enough to know that. She would have never gotten herself into such a mess. (She’d just marry that mess and then defend him.) But no, really, she’s sorry that the girl made such a mistake and ran into her husband who was also in the middle of a mistake-making night. And hey, they both made mistakes here. Why are we going to go around pointing fingers? Look, Laura won’t use the word “stupid” to describe the victim, at least not explicitly, as long as we don’t use the word “rapist” to describe her husband. Deal?
Yeah, from now on, I won’t refer to Priolo as a rapist, just a man who gets high and drives around town looking for young women to promise rides and then rape. Not a rapist, just a man who rapes women in cemeteries. Does that make you feel better? (/snark)
One last point. Let me just say that if the comment is “real,” I can’t even comprehend the arrogance of saying that you and your husband hope the woman he raped has a “peaceful” life. Can you imagine? Is that supposed to make the woman feel better? What fucking entitlement. I can’t even begin to comprehend the trauma and overflowing anger I would experience if I heard that my rapist was wishing me a peaceful life. Fuck you. You don’t get to disrupt the peacefulness of another person’s life and then wish them peace. Even worse, you don’t get to imply that it’s your right to tell the rape survivor whether or not she ought to be angry, traumatized, or sad. You just don’t. Ever. Especially when every other word coming out of your mouth indicates that you’re just trying to look like the good guy, and don’t really don’t give a shit.
Comments
26 Comments so far
Subscribe to The Curvature
“Men, their rights, and nothing more; women, their rights, and nothing less.” — Susan B. Anthony
[Mod Note: I have now banned Laura, but I thought it was important to at least let her show her true colors here. And after all, this post is about her. But please be aware before reading further that this comment may be very triggering to survivors. It's quite vile, victim-blaming, racist, and upset me a great deal myself. She also clearly did not read the post as I never said or suggested that Stefano might rape his daughter or wife. --Cara]
Fuck you and every one eles.Stefano is not a rapist and he doesn’t do drugs anymore.He’s been clean for 2yrs now. I do know what it feels to be raped for I was raped when I was 18yrs and also sexualy assulted in my own home by a fucking black guy 4yrs ago. So don’t say that I don’t give a shit about the girl.Where you there in the court house hearing every fucking detail.No probaly not so fuck you if you think Stefano is a rapist.The girl didn’t have any medical reports or any evidence of being raped and she was not even shooking up or in shock when the doctors where examing her. there’s no thearapy records or anything.The girl could of exscape so many times.Like when they stoped at the gas station to get her smokes and he left the car running.She could of ran into the store ask for help or even take the car if she was terribly hurt. The girl even had a cell phone on her so she could of called 911.I know when me and the friends that I know that have been raped. We all had bruses and cuts on our selfs showing that there was forcement on us. We all fight are hardest to exscape and we all cried out for help.I even threating the black guy that I would cut off his dick with one my knifes if he didn’t get the fuck off me and didn’t get out my house. Im not trying to make my self to look like the good guy.Im just saying what I believe in. Fuck you if you ever think or can even say that Stefano could end up rapping his own daughter or me. Stefano is a great dad and a wonderful husband and I know he would never hurt us.If Stefano was such a bad person I wouldn’t be with him. I just get bad feelings when bad people are round me and I never got any bad vibes from Stefano. I really didn’t want to start a big conturversie thing so think what you like.I’ll think what I like to.
Oh, well then. I had thought that raping someone made you a rapist, but it’s good to hear that that’s not true. Now that we know that Laura doesn’t get any bad vibes from Stefano, we can all rest assured that it was just a mistake, and that him forcing himself on that woman wasn’t actually rape, because rapists give Laura bad feelings (and are black guys, right?). You suck, Laura. You and rape apologist jackoffs like you make this world a worse place.
Assuming that Laura is who she says she is:
I think it’s legitimate, actually, to try to discriminate between what someone is “really” like, and what someone is like or does when they are high (or drunk). We know that drugs alter brain activity.
I also think it’s legitimate to discriminate between what someone *does* and what they *are*.
And yes, the blaming-the-victim part is not great. OTOH, Laura says that she, too, was shocked by the judge’s statement. And, I mean, if someone you loved had been sent to jail for a heinous crime, wouldn’t you, too, wish that the victim had made a different decision so that the opportunity would simply not have come up?
I am glad that Laura says that Stefano hasn’t used drugs in two years. I really, really hope that he stays off them–and I’m not opposed, morally, to recreational drug use, btw–since what he did while high was so awful. And I do think that it’s to his credit, again assuming that the comment is legit, that he’s off them and that his wife is both in his corner and, as I read the comments, completely aware of the horribleness of his crime.
Please don’t call me a rape apologist – I think this Stefano is a giant jerk and should be locked up for a very, very long time.
I did find Laura’a response somewhat enlightening, though – I read it as, rather than calling her husband’s rape a ‘mistake’, she was denying it happened at all.
Which might be just semantics – but moves her in my head from a rape apologist to being delusional and burying her head in the sand. Perhaps I’m reading too much into it – but I even start to get the impression that, for all her words of devotion, Stefano scares her too.
This defense of Stefano directly contradicts any criticism of the rape victim’s decisions. He’s safe with plenty of examples to prove it.
Bitchphd, by the attack in Laura’s comment on this post against the rape victim (“The girl could of exscape so many times”), the rejection of the label rapist isn’t due to seeing the difference between what someone does and who they are. It is just plain old rape denial.
I think that in some cases, this is true. Doing something bad doesn’t necessarily make one a bad person, for example. And bad people can sometimes do good things. But I think that other terms are different, and rapist is one of them. If you can rape someone without being a rapist, what does “rapist” even mean anymore? Because I don’t know.
As for if someone I loved committed a heinous crime . . . I can’t say that I’ve ever been in the situation. But that being said, I certainly hope not. And I don’t think I would. And if I did? I hope that it would be one of those things, one of those wishes that we all occasionally have, that we know are wrong and therefore keep to ourselves and don’t say out loud.
But I agree that if he is off drugs and the drugs were a strong contributing factor in his decision to rape, the fact that he is off the drugs is a good thing. Further, I don’t outright oppose standing by a person you love when they do something horrible. I think that’s a personal call, and especially when we’re talking about a parent-child relationship, it’s downright understandable. But I have also always differentiated between standing by someone who does something horrible and making excuses for the horrible thing they did. I think you can do the former without the latter. And if you can’t, it might be time to stop standing by.
Genstar, I won’t call you a rape apologist because you haven’t said anything here to indicate to me that you are! :) You may be right that she is in denial. But that adds confusion to what horrible thing she thinks he did that he so totally regrets. However, that doesn’t rule it out because there’s already a lot of backflip reasoning going on here anyway . . .
And as I generally do, I agree with abyss2hope.
I disagree that there is a distinction between what someone does and who they are. People are what they do – your actions define who you are, not some ambiguous notion of a true self that exists separately from you and what you do.
Well I have two cents to throw in. I think that her commentary is more about her than even her rapist husband. She speaks about how she is suffering because her husband is incarcerated. She speaks about how it affects their child, she does not speak about how it effects Stefano. I believe that she is covering from him because she does not want to believe that someone that she loves is capable of such an act of violence and violation. To admit that she could love someone like that would cause her to question her own judgment. Remember she chose to have a child with this man and she must be asking herself on some level what did she do. No her apologism is not for the sake of defending Stefano, it is to protect herself and the happy family she has envisioned having. It is so that she can remain a person of good character and good judgment. She wants the white picket fence, Ozzie and Harriet life and deep down she knows that this is not possible with a rapist.
And as Cara said in her original post, even if someone does “love” their wife and daughter, and would never, ever rape them, that doesn’t mean they aren’t capable of raping someone else. Soldiers in Pinochet’s Chile were experts at this – rapist and torturer by day, devoted husband by night. In fact, rapists tend to distance themselves from and dehumanize their victims. That doesn’t mean that they shouldn’t be called rapists and it certainly doesn’t mean that they are good people.
Wow, I think I just got BINGO on the rape-apologist card. I actually feel sorry for this woman; this must have screwed up her life pretty thoroughly. However, her husband made the decision to screw up an innocent person’s life thoroughly and she chose to defend his actions. Nobody wants to hear ‘rapist’ in conjunction with someone they trust, but if you rape someone, that’s what you ARE.
And I completely agree about shattering someone’s peace and wishing her a ‘peaceful life’. Oh, you mean AFTER she was raped in a cemetary? AFTER the victim-blaming and trauma? Eventually her life might be peaceful again, no thanks to you, Laura. What a nasty thoughtless thing to say. And your husband? IS ‘LIKE THAT’.
Cara, please keep telling it like is.
“And I completely agree about shattering someone’s peace and wishing her a ‘peaceful life’. Oh, you mean AFTER she was raped in a cemetary? AFTER the victim-blaming and trauma? Eventually her life might be peaceful again, no thanks to you, Laura.”
I’d like to point out that Laura did not shatter that woman’s peace. Laura did not rape this woman. It’s a perilous start to things, to identify this woman (who we would all agree is suffering in the aftermath of what her husband did) with her husband’s act– because we think she’s not being genuine or being rude or ignorant. After all, he is the rapist and no one else. It was his choice that shattered this woman’s peace.
And wherever it may align me on things, I think Laura truly does wish this woman a peaceful life, that someday she might heal. I wish Laura a peaceful life too, that someday she might heal.
I agree that they’re not the same person and do not hold the same responsibility. My issue is a) that she said she and her husband wished the young woman who he raped a peaceful life and b) that she wished her a peaceful life and then proceeded to argue that it was kind of that woman’s fault and also that it wasn’t really rape because she didn’t do thinks the way that Laura thinks she should have done them.
And yeah, until she is willing to admit that what her husband did was rape — which her comment in this post shows she absolutely does not — I don’t really believe that she thinks the woman has anything to heal from, and do not find the wish for a peaceful life genuine. The issue isn’t who she is but how she is behaving and I’d say the same about anyone I found engaging in rape apologism.
how can this woman be helped? i mean, how can she receive support so that she is not dependent on her husband? so that she can let go and get some distance and see the truth and have a peaceful life herself?
You know, I was sitting her trying to figure out what I would do if it was my husband who raped somebody and all I could come up with is: “But he would never do that!” So I can see where this instinct comes from… she just can’t force herself to believe that her husband raped somebody, so she finds a way to make it not rape. I’m not saying that’s okay… and the victim blaming in her comment was horrifying… but I do understand where it comes from.
To a large extent, what we DO is what we ARE.
We call people who practice medicine “doctors”, members of the clergy “preachers”, and professional athletes “bowlers”, “golfers”, “surfers”, etc. We have all sorts of organizations for hobbyists and amateurs; quilters’, gardeners’, and scrapbookers’ clubs are quite popular, I’m told. We have all sorts of labels for people based on the livelihoods, hobbies, and habits that they choose. We also paint people with broad strokes based on their beliefs; Christians, right-to-lifers, environmentalists, feminists, gun nuts, libertarians, you name it, we got ‘em and we use labels to describe ‘em. For the most part, they are apt descriptions. The subject may not appreciate the distinction, but that doesn’t mean the behavior or belief isn’t accurately represented by the name.
Some labels are changeable; myself, I used to ride my bike, but now I’m a runner. Some labels will always stay the same. A man or woman who once served in a war zone will always be a veteran. A retired judge will always be “The Honorable”. Rapist is another one of those labels that never changes.
A person who works in a library is a librarian. A person who drives a car with shiny red and blue lights is a cop. A person who plays music in church is an organist. These folks may have additional roles and interests, but that just means there are additional words to describe them. A person may be a dutiful son and attentive father, but that does not exclude any other descriptor. A person who raped is a rapist regardless of his outside interests.
I agree it’s hard to think of someone trusted as a rapist. I had a close friend who raped my sister and even though I *KNEW* that she was almost passed-out drunk and that he had sex with her, I couldn’t think of it as rape (until she actually said that she could only remember thinking that she didn’t want to have sex) until months later. Months. It tears me up because for months I was friends with someone who raped my sister. When/If Laura leaves Stefano The Rapist, she will feel as disgusting as I do.
Jess, there is NO REASON for you to feel “disgusting” or ashamed! Your friend did a terrible thing to your sister, and you didn’t fully understand it at the time. (Funny, we still have this idea of having sex with a drunk/stoned person as not quite as bad as forcible rape; we know it’s not right, but not AS wrong, morally or legally. Guilty of that perceptual error myself at times, and working on it by a lot of conscious effort.) From your post, it appears that when your sister gave you more information, you acted appropriately and terminated the friendship. Hearing her feelings made all the difference for you, and powerful as they may have been, they aren’t as overwhelming as an arrest, trial, conviction, and sentencing (likely with victim impact statements). Your initial views of your sister’s rape are not even remotely comparable to Laura’s denials in the face of such evidence. While I hope that Laura comes to learn and regret her error, my greater wish is that you find peace with yourself and an even stronger love with your sister.
POAndrea, I really like your thoughts on labels and why they still apply. A person attending AA meetings is still an ‘alcoholic’, even 10 years later. A guy who has raped someone is still a rapist, even if he’s not OMGRapingsomegirl right that second. And yes, I heard that argument once.
Wow, I actually just feel really badly for Laura, for the most part. It’s clear that her inability to see how somebody’s past behavior is part of a pattern that can predict how they might, potentially, treat her is putting her in a dangerous situation. It’s ironic that she doesn’t have a whole lot of sympathy for the person Stefano raped since she had so many chances to escape, while she is squandering or is just unable to see her own chance to escape. What a sad situation.
People can be like more than one thing. You’re devoted to your kid, then yes, that’s what you’re like. You take a woman to the cemetery and rape her, then that’s also what you’re like. Neither cancels out the other.
As a sex crime victim, I would like to express how i feel towards this whole thing.
I believe the reason why the RAPIST married his wife was because she was gullible and vulnerable. This is the reason why I dont think josef fritzl’s wife is to be blamed for not challenging josef for 24 years or not leaving josef after he had raped someone. Those men tend to choose women that they can dominant to be their wives.Also, after that many years, those wives are brain washed.
I really hope that those who use the word “stupid” to describe the victim try and imagine how they would feel if the victim is their loved one. The girl could be standing alone in the dark for hrs and was scared and someone who seemed trust worthy offered her a ride home sincerely, not really that stupid to accept the offer. Most of us think that rapists are huge and ugly, but not like a family man.
Well, it happened that my prepertrator ’s girlfriend wrote me something similar, it hurt.I found her selfish. She could pretend that nth had ever happened and hoped that i could do the same. That was one of the cruelest anyone can do to the victim, ask her to keep silence.
actually, rapists are often nice to kids. go and do some research on that. They have to tell themself that they are good people.
Let me see if this is what it boils down to: my husband is not a rapist, but that girl was still stupid to be out at that time of night, because people like my husband, who is not a rapist, might be out there trying to rape her.
Yeah, sounds pretty reasonable.
Because she might turn people like my husband, who is not a rapist, into rapists. Because obviously rape isn’t a choice.
Bleuch.
Rebecca, if someone rapes someone else, they are a rapist. This is pretty basic. It doesn’t matter that the girl was out at night, PEOPLE SHOULDN’T RAPE.
[...] long lamented the fact that no one wants to think that someone they know, let alone love, might be a rapist. And they will contort all logic and facts to find a way to either assert that [...]