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	<title>Comments on: Why is Victim a Dirty Word?</title>
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		<title>By: &#8220;Victim,&#8221; &#8220;Survivor,&#8221; or Both? &#171; The Other Side of Madness</title>
		<link>http://thecurvature.com/2008/12/13/why-is-victim-a-dirty-word/#comment-12551</link>
		<dc:creator>&#8220;Victim,&#8221; &#8220;Survivor,&#8221; or Both? &#171; The Other Side of Madness</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 May 2009 18:53:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecurvature.com/?p=2503#comment-12551</guid>
		<description>[...] rape, recovery, sexual assault, sexual justice, sexual violence, women&#039;s rights)  Over at The Curvature, Cara has started a discussion about the use of the term &#8220;victim&#8221; versus [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] rape, recovery, sexual assault, sexual justice, sexual violence, women&#8217;s rights)  Over at The Curvature, Cara has started a discussion about the use of the term &#8220;victim&#8221; versus [...]</p>
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		<title>By: DaisyDeadhead</title>
		<link>http://thecurvature.com/2008/12/13/why-is-victim-a-dirty-word/#comment-10461</link>
		<dc:creator>DaisyDeadhead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Feb 2009 18:46:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecurvature.com/?p=2503#comment-10461</guid>
		<description>Cara, awesome writing.  Sorry I am so late getting here, as usual.  

I didn&#039;t grow up with the whole taboo on &quot;victim&quot;--so it is VERY confusing to me.  When I tried to write on FEMINIST CRITICS (yes, I know, glutton for punishment) about my intense feelings over not being allowed to play drums, (a very charged-issue in my life and a post I am still struggling to write), I was inundated with nasty remarks about how I was &quot;playing the victim&quot; and I could have played the drums &lt;i&gt;any time I wanted&lt;/i&gt; after I left my family home (the people who refused me the right to play--to clarify: my family was a musical family and there were drum kits right there in my house;&lt;/i&gt; I was not allowed to go near them, rather like men&#039;s carpentry tools)... this seems to overlook how oppression works, and how pervasive it is.  Because of this unpleasant thread, I --1)  left FEMINIST CRITICS, never to return and 2) never posted the part of my childhood recollection I finally DID finish.  I worried I was &quot;playing victim&quot;--especially since I really don&#039;t know what the hell that means.  I mean, facts are facts, and I was not permitted to play drums because when I was growing up, because &lt;i&gt;that&#039;s the way it was.&lt;/i&gt;  (And as I reminded the guys who held her up to me as an example: KAREN CARPENTER HAD HER DRUMS TAKEN AWAY FROM HER AND EVENTUALLY FUCKING DIED, OKAY?  &lt;i&gt;Please stop&lt;/i&gt; the mindless &quot;What about Karen Carpenter?&quot;  yammering.) 

How else to talk about such realities?   YES, I was a VICTIM of SEXISM and NOT ALLOWED to play the drums, which I think would have radically changed my personality, allowing me to release a lot of physical aggression, permitting me to develop strength, not to mention doing what I really loved.  Why can we say this about generations of would-be female athletes, denied the right to join teams, but no other activities?  Wait, maybe we AREN&#039;T allowed to say that any more... OMG, maybe they are &quot;playing the victim&quot; TOO!!!! 

This is all a way to SILENCE people, IMHO.  The neocons decided &quot;victim&quot; was a whiny excuse, and now, even the liberals tote their water for them.  It&#039;s disgusting.

Thanks for your awesomeness, yet again!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cara, awesome writing.  Sorry I am so late getting here, as usual.  </p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t grow up with the whole taboo on &#8220;victim&#8221;&#8211;so it is VERY confusing to me.  When I tried to write on FEMINIST CRITICS (yes, I know, glutton for punishment) about my intense feelings over not being allowed to play drums, (a very charged-issue in my life and a post I am still struggling to write), I was inundated with nasty remarks about how I was &#8220;playing the victim&#8221; and I could have played the drums <i>any time I wanted</i> after I left my family home (the people who refused me the right to play&#8211;to clarify: my family was a musical family and there were drum kits right there in my house; I was not allowed to go near them, rather like men&#8217;s carpentry tools)&#8230; this seems to overlook how oppression works, and how pervasive it is.  Because of this unpleasant thread, I &#8211;1)  left FEMINIST CRITICS, never to return and 2) never posted the part of my childhood recollection I finally DID finish.  I worried I was &#8220;playing victim&#8221;&#8211;especially since I really don&#8217;t know what the hell that means.  I mean, facts are facts, and I was not permitted to play drums because when I was growing up, because <i>that&#8217;s the way it was.</i>  (And as I reminded the guys who held her up to me as an example: KAREN CARPENTER HAD HER DRUMS TAKEN AWAY FROM HER AND EVENTUALLY FUCKING DIED, OKAY?  <i>Please stop</i> the mindless &#8220;What about Karen Carpenter?&#8221;  yammering.) </p>
<p>How else to talk about such realities?   YES, I was a VICTIM of SEXISM and NOT ALLOWED to play the drums, which I think would have radically changed my personality, allowing me to release a lot of physical aggression, permitting me to develop strength, not to mention doing what I really loved.  Why can we say this about generations of would-be female athletes, denied the right to join teams, but no other activities?  Wait, maybe we AREN&#8217;T allowed to say that any more&#8230; OMG, maybe they are &#8220;playing the victim&#8221; TOO!!!! </p>
<p>This is all a way to SILENCE people, IMHO.  The neocons decided &#8220;victim&#8221; was a whiny excuse, and now, even the liberals tote their water for them.  It&#8217;s disgusting.</p>
<p>Thanks for your awesomeness, yet again!</p>
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		<title>By: nails</title>
		<link>http://thecurvature.com/2008/12/13/why-is-victim-a-dirty-word/#comment-10460</link>
		<dc:creator>nails</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Feb 2009 18:40:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecurvature.com/?p=2503#comment-10460</guid>
		<description>I had not thought about this. Whenever I described myself I always said &quot;I was raped&quot;, I didnt see a need for a word like victim or survivor. Im not sure its neccesary at all. &quot;Women who have been sexually abused&quot; etc works just fine for me. I do think its silly that being a victim of something is being treated like a dirty word.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had not thought about this. Whenever I described myself I always said &#8220;I was raped&#8221;, I didnt see a need for a word like victim or survivor. Im not sure its neccesary at all. &#8220;Women who have been sexually abused&#8221; etc works just fine for me. I do think its silly that being a victim of something is being treated like a dirty word.</p>
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		<title>By: Irene</title>
		<link>http://thecurvature.com/2008/12/13/why-is-victim-a-dirty-word/#comment-10458</link>
		<dc:creator>Irene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Feb 2009 17:35:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecurvature.com/?p=2503#comment-10458</guid>
		<description>Your post raises exactly a question I have been dealing with for over half a year now. I got out of an emotionally and sexually abusive relationship last summer. It&#039;s been difficult getting my life back on track because of flashbacks and insomnia. etc. 

An immense part of my sadness afterwards was the realization that somehow I had been there all along; that I had enabled his abusing me; that there is something in me that must make people (men) insecure or angry with me and my ways... That I could have left earlier, or spoken up for myself more, or done something! That, in a weird way, I was the one making it all happen, either because I was provoking him or because I didn&#039;t speak up when things were happening.

I still have to be reminded now and then that I was, in fact, a victim. I have difficulties using that label - it does indeed carry the associations of weakness. But you know what? I was weak in that relationship - not because I am inherently so, but because he undermined my every move and thought. Weak is a relative term, and there are very few people who are not &#039;weakened&#039; when confronted with emotional, physical, sexual abuse. 

So claiming that word, victim, did help me; it helped me stop blame myself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your post raises exactly a question I have been dealing with for over half a year now. I got out of an emotionally and sexually abusive relationship last summer. It&#8217;s been difficult getting my life back on track because of flashbacks and insomnia. etc. </p>
<p>An immense part of my sadness afterwards was the realization that somehow I had been there all along; that I had enabled his abusing me; that there is something in me that must make people (men) insecure or angry with me and my ways&#8230; That I could have left earlier, or spoken up for myself more, or done something! That, in a weird way, I was the one making it all happen, either because I was provoking him or because I didn&#8217;t speak up when things were happening.</p>
<p>I still have to be reminded now and then that I was, in fact, a victim. I have difficulties using that label &#8211; it does indeed carry the associations of weakness. But you know what? I was weak in that relationship &#8211; not because I am inherently so, but because he undermined my every move and thought. Weak is a relative term, and there are very few people who are not &#8216;weakened&#8217; when confronted with emotional, physical, sexual abuse. </p>
<p>So claiming that word, victim, did help me; it helped me stop blame myself.</p>
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		<title>By: In Which Chris Matthews Says Something Intelligent : The Curvature</title>
		<link>http://thecurvature.com/2008/12/13/why-is-victim-a-dirty-word/#comment-10147</link>
		<dc:creator>In Which Chris Matthews Says Something Intelligent : The Curvature</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 15:11:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecurvature.com/?p=2503#comment-10147</guid>
		<description>[...] Based on this video, in which President of the Independent Women&#8217;s Voice Michelle Bernard and Planned Parenthood Federation of America CEO Cecile Richards discuss the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act with Chris Matthews, Renee has called Michelle Bernard &#8220;colluder of the week&#8221; for getting in bed with the patriarchy and arguing that demanding equality is the same thing as behaving like a &#8220;victim&#8221; (more on this phenomenon here): [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Based on this video, in which President of the Independent Women&#8217;s Voice Michelle Bernard and Planned Parenthood Federation of America CEO Cecile Richards discuss the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act with Chris Matthews, Renee has called Michelle Bernard &#8220;colluder of the week&#8221; for getting in bed with the patriarchy and arguing that demanding equality is the same thing as behaving like a &#8220;victim&#8221; (more on this phenomenon here): [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Let her get on with her life &#171; Too Much To Say For Myself</title>
		<link>http://thecurvature.com/2008/12/13/why-is-victim-a-dirty-word/#comment-9687</link>
		<dc:creator>Let her get on with her life &#171; Too Much To Say For Myself</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 12:39:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecurvature.com/?p=2503#comment-9687</guid>
		<description>[...] to go public with these details, it&#8217;s evident that this is yet another case of a rape victim being re-victimised by the legal process, a process that supposedly exists to protect and to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to go public with these details, it&#8217;s evident that this is yet another case of a rape victim being re-victimised by the legal process, a process that supposedly exists to protect and to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: SnowdropExplodes</title>
		<link>http://thecurvature.com/2008/12/13/why-is-victim-a-dirty-word/#comment-9179</link>
		<dc:creator>SnowdropExplodes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Dec 2008 13:25:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecurvature.com/?p=2503#comment-9179</guid>
		<description>I think that &quot;victim&quot; becomes a problem when it becomes not merely a description of what happened, but an identification of one&#039;s life-role: that is, I think &quot;don&#039;t be a victim&quot; refers more properly (although perhaps not in most people&#039;s thinking) to the idea of playing a part: in my life, I have played this part sometimes, of casting myself as &quot;victim&quot; in a broader sense, as someone who &lt;b&gt;always&lt;/b&gt; ends up the target of someone else, &quot;for no good reason&quot;.   This is a long way from what happens to us when we are genuinely a victim of someone else&#039;s aggression.   When it actually happens, we genuinely are weak, we are frightened, and unless we are lucky, we are also helpless.   But once it has happened and is over, there is a choice to struggle against that, or to embrace it.   I think &quot;victim&quot; therefore has a positive usage and a negative usage: positive says, &quot;yes, this happened to me and I deal with it&quot; (which is why I understand some people prefer the term &quot;survivor&quot; to refer to this), and negative, which is &quot;I will always be this way for ever more&quot;.   I hasten to add that I cast no condemnation on those for whom the second meaning feels real; they are still victims in the first sense, after all, and nothing justifies what happened to them.   It is just that I do believe it is a psychological reaction that is ultimately harmful to the person experiencing it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that &#8220;victim&#8221; becomes a problem when it becomes not merely a description of what happened, but an identification of one&#8217;s life-role: that is, I think &#8220;don&#8217;t be a victim&#8221; refers more properly (although perhaps not in most people&#8217;s thinking) to the idea of playing a part: in my life, I have played this part sometimes, of casting myself as &#8220;victim&#8221; in a broader sense, as someone who <b>always</b> ends up the target of someone else, &#8220;for no good reason&#8221;.   This is a long way from what happens to us when we are genuinely a victim of someone else&#8217;s aggression.   When it actually happens, we genuinely are weak, we are frightened, and unless we are lucky, we are also helpless.   But once it has happened and is over, there is a choice to struggle against that, or to embrace it.   I think &#8220;victim&#8221; therefore has a positive usage and a negative usage: positive says, &#8220;yes, this happened to me and I deal with it&#8221; (which is why I understand some people prefer the term &#8220;survivor&#8221; to refer to this), and negative, which is &#8220;I will always be this way for ever more&#8221;.   I hasten to add that I cast no condemnation on those for whom the second meaning feels real; they are still victims in the first sense, after all, and nothing justifies what happened to them.   It is just that I do believe it is a psychological reaction that is ultimately harmful to the person experiencing it.</p>
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		<title>By: Being Amber Rhea &#187; Blog Archive &#187; links for 2008-12-25</title>
		<link>http://thecurvature.com/2008/12/13/why-is-victim-a-dirty-word/#comment-9178</link>
		<dc:creator>Being Amber Rhea &#187; Blog Archive &#187; links for 2008-12-25</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Dec 2008 12:30:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecurvature.com/?p=2503#comment-9178</guid>
		<description>[...] Why is Victim a Dirty Word? : The Curvature &quot;Why identify &#039;victim&#039; so closely with &#039;weak&#039; if there’s not some sort of admonishment to take responsibility in there? After all, isn’t that exactly what’s behind the &#039;women always want to play the victim&#039; taunt/complaint? It’s saying that there is responsibility on behalf of women to be taken, and the problem is that the phrase is almost always used when the woman is in fact a victim. In those cases, it’s telling women to stand up and take responsibility for something over which they have none. It’s telling them to reject the idea that they were an innocent in the situation, even when they were. Telling them to reject &#039;victim&#039; is in fact telling them to reject the truth of their experience.&quot; (tags: feminism women society sexism psychology stereotypes language) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Why is Victim a Dirty Word? : The Curvature &quot;Why identify &#39;victim&#39; so closely with &#39;weak&#39; if there’s not some sort of admonishment to take responsibility in there? After all, isn’t that exactly what’s behind the &#39;women always want to play the victim&#39; taunt/complaint? It’s saying that there is responsibility on behalf of women to be taken, and the problem is that the phrase is almost always used when the woman is in fact a victim. In those cases, it’s telling women to stand up and take responsibility for something over which they have none. It’s telling them to reject the idea that they were an innocent in the situation, even when they were. Telling them to reject &#39;victim&#39; is in fact telling them to reject the truth of their experience.&quot; (tags: feminism women society sexism psychology stereotypes language) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: umami</title>
		<link>http://thecurvature.com/2008/12/13/why-is-victim-a-dirty-word/#comment-9127</link>
		<dc:creator>umami</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 00:52:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecurvature.com/?p=2503#comment-9127</guid>
		<description>I know the point of this post is not really about Kristin Bell, but I just wanted to add that her breakout role was as the titular character in Veronica Mars, who is beyond any doubt a &quot;strong female character&quot;, verging on ridiculously so except the writing is good enough to carry it off. The first season of that show is FANTASTIC, and one of its central season-long mysteries (which Veronica is trying to solve herself) is &quot;who raped Veronica?&quot; So I think Bell is probably expressing her desire not to play the victim in the sense of being a Woman in Refrigerator plot device for the male hero to rescue/angst over; she certainly can&#039;t have a problem playing the victim of a crime.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know the point of this post is not really about Kristin Bell, but I just wanted to add that her breakout role was as the titular character in Veronica Mars, who is beyond any doubt a &#8220;strong female character&#8221;, verging on ridiculously so except the writing is good enough to carry it off. The first season of that show is FANTASTIC, and one of its central season-long mysteries (which Veronica is trying to solve herself) is &#8220;who raped Veronica?&#8221; So I think Bell is probably expressing her desire not to play the victim in the sense of being a Woman in Refrigerator plot device for the male hero to rescue/angst over; she certainly can&#8217;t have a problem playing the victim of a crime.</p>
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		<title>By: PO A.</title>
		<link>http://thecurvature.com/2008/12/13/why-is-victim-a-dirty-word/#comment-9016</link>
		<dc:creator>PO A.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 21:41:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecurvature.com/?p=2503#comment-9016</guid>
		<description>I WAS a victim of rape 13 years ago, but I AM a survivor.  &quot;Victim&quot; is tied to an act, a discrete period of time.  &quot;Survivor&quot; is my response to that, an ongoing process.  I have no problems using both words, because they describe two very different things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I WAS a victim of rape 13 years ago, but I AM a survivor.  &#8220;Victim&#8221; is tied to an act, a discrete period of time.  &#8220;Survivor&#8221; is my response to that, an ongoing process.  I have no problems using both words, because they describe two very different things.</p>
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