Comments on: Yoko Ono: A Feminist Analysis (Part One: The Ballad of John and Yoko) http://thecurvature.com/2008/12/20/yoko-ono-a-feminist-analysis-part-1-the-ballad-of-john-and-yoko/ Tue, 16 Mar 2010 23:27:42 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Ruminations on a Song : The Curvature http://thecurvature.com/2008/12/20/yoko-ono-a-feminist-analysis-part-1-the-ballad-of-john-and-yoko/#comment-12044 Ruminations on a Song : The Curvature Wed, 29 Apr 2009 16:38:09 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/?p=823#comment-12044 [...] she sticks to a critique of the song and the privilege that Lennon displays in it). And while I, quite clearly, have no difficulty pointing out instances where John was an asshole and calling him an [...] [...] she sticks to a critique of the song and the privilege that Lennon displays in it). And while I, quite clearly, have no difficulty pointing out instances where John was an asshole and calling him an [...]

]]> By: Yolanda C. http://thecurvature.com/2008/12/20/yoko-ono-a-feminist-analysis-part-1-the-ballad-of-john-and-yoko/#comment-10506 Yolanda C. Wed, 18 Feb 2009 19:31:59 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/?p=823#comment-10506 Cara, I don't know how I missed this excellent series about Yoko Ono. I'm halfway done---about to read the last three posts. Thank you SO much for this. This is exactly what I dream for in writing---a political perspective, a feminist perspective---about the art and entertainment that people love so much. And you couldn't find a better example of venerated men who piggybacked on women's labor than The Beatles. Your series is the perfect antidote to heterosexist/racist historical mythmaking about "great men." We need need need more grassroots analysis like this. Damn, what that sista had to go through with those fools! And she's still here kicking ass. Happy birthday Yoko! Cara, I don’t know how I missed this excellent series about Yoko Ono. I’m halfway done—about to read the last three posts. Thank you SO much for this.

This is exactly what I dream for in writing—a political perspective, a feminist perspective—about the art and entertainment that people love so much. And you couldn’t find a better example of venerated men who piggybacked on women’s labor than The Beatles. Your series is the perfect antidote to heterosexist/racist historical mythmaking about “great men.” We need need need more grassroots analysis like this.

Damn, what that sista had to go through with those fools! And she’s still here kicking ass. Happy birthday Yoko!

]]> By: Linkfest — Hoyden About Town http://thecurvature.com/2008/12/20/yoko-ono-a-feminist-analysis-part-1-the-ballad-of-john-and-yoko/#comment-10236 Linkfest — Hoyden About Town Sun, 08 Feb 2009 00:39:18 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/?p=823#comment-10236 [...] Part One: The Ballad of John and Yoko [...] [...] Part One: The Ballad of John and Yoko [...]

]]> By: Friday Hoyden: Yoko Ono — Hoyden About Town http://thecurvature.com/2008/12/20/yoko-ono-a-feminist-analysis-part-1-the-ballad-of-john-and-yoko/#comment-9981 Friday Hoyden: Yoko Ono — Hoyden About Town Fri, 30 Jan 2009 02:43:48 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/?p=823#comment-9981 [...] Part One was probably the most fun for me to write, as it goes heavily into Beatles history, and explains why exactly Yoko didn’t break up the band. But I probably like Part Two and Part Three the best, which respectively go into the falsehood, racism and misogyny behind the idea that Yoko was using and destroying John Lennon, and how her failure to live to standards of femininity/womanhood drove the vitriol surrounding her public image. [...] [...] Part One was probably the most fun for me to write, as it goes heavily into Beatles history, and explains why exactly Yoko didn’t break up the band. But I probably like Part Two and Part Three the best, which respectively go into the falsehood, racism and misogyny behind the idea that Yoko was using and destroying John Lennon, and how her failure to live to standards of femininity/womanhood drove the vitriol surrounding her public image. [...]

]]> By: The Return of Weekly Geeks « Book Addiction http://thecurvature.com/2008/12/20/yoko-ono-a-feminist-analysis-part-1-the-ballad-of-john-and-yoko/#comment-9575 The Return of Weekly Geeks « Book Addiction Sun, 11 Jan 2009 04:19:44 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/?p=823#comment-9575 [...] Cara at The Curvature - This is the only non-books blog on my list.  Cara is probably my favorite feminist blogger.  Her posts are smart,well-researched, passionate, and 99% of the time about issues that matter to me deeply.  I truly admire the work she’s doing on her blog.  And if you’re a Beatles fan, check out the recent series she did on Yoko Ono.  It’s truly not to be missed. [...] [...] Cara at The Curvature – This is the only non-books blog on my list.  Cara is probably my favorite feminist blogger.  Her posts are smart,well-researched, passionate, and 99% of the time about issues that matter to me deeply.  I truly admire the work she’s doing on her blog.  And if you’re a Beatles fan, check out the recent series she did on Yoko Ono.  It’s truly not to be missed. [...]

]]> By: Yoko Ono: A Feminist Analysis (Addendum: Just Like Starting Over) : The Curvature http://thecurvature.com/2008/12/20/yoko-ono-a-feminist-analysis-part-1-the-ballad-of-john-and-yoko/#comment-9477 Yoko Ono: A Feminist Analysis (Addendum: Just Like Starting Over) : The Curvature Wed, 07 Jan 2009 14:05:33 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/?p=823#comment-9477 [...] Oh Yoko! Part One: The Ballad of John and Yoko Part Two: Don’t Let Me Down Part Three: [...] [...] Oh Yoko! Part One: The Ballad of John and Yoko Part Two: Don’t Let Me Down Part Three: [...]

]]> By: Cara http://thecurvature.com/2008/12/20/yoko-ono-a-feminist-analysis-part-1-the-ballad-of-john-and-yoko/#comment-9398 Cara Mon, 05 Jan 2009 14:26:46 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/?p=823#comment-9398 <blockquote>I thought we were talking about the public perception of Yoko. As far as I know, the Beatles NEVER blamed Yoko for the break-up of the band.</blockquote> As far as I know, i never claimed that they did do that. i said that they treated her like shit, and their treating her like shit, especially publicly, has sure as hell helped to fuel those notions. <blockquote>If John wanted her opinion on his music, he could have asked her at home. I think that if Mick Jagger was in the studio all the day, every day, because he was the new best friend of John Lennon they wouldn’t have like it either. I think their complains were legitimate.</blockquote> The problem is that they weren't even adult enough to complain. They just treated her like shit.

I thought we were talking about the public perception of Yoko. As far as I know, the Beatles NEVER blamed Yoko for the break-up of the band.

As far as I know, i never claimed that they did do that. i said that they treated her like shit, and their treating her like shit, especially publicly, has sure as hell helped to fuel those notions.

If John wanted her opinion on his music, he could have asked her at home. I think that if Mick Jagger was in the studio all the day, every day, because he was the new best friend of John Lennon they wouldn’t have like it either. I think their complains were legitimate.

The problem is that they weren’t even adult enough to complain. They just treated her like shit.

]]> By: Daniella Perez http://thecurvature.com/2008/12/20/yoko-ono-a-feminist-analysis-part-1-the-ballad-of-john-and-yoko/#comment-9394 Daniella Perez Mon, 05 Jan 2009 13:25:18 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/?p=823#comment-9394 Hmmm. I have to disagree on this one. I thought we were talking about the public perception of Yoko. As far as I know, the Beatles NEVER blamed Yoko for the break-up of the band. And nowadays, most of the fans don't blame her either. Only the general public who doesn't know nothing of the Beatles' history do. And of course they didn't like her on the studio. Like it or not, the studio was a working place. There were guests now and then in the recordings. Males and females. Yoko herself was a guest during the recording of the "Fool on the Hill". There were parties there. And Neil and Mal were there employees, they were there to serve them, that's why they were there. Their complains was more because she was there all the time. Would you like the girlfriends or boyfriends of your workmates to be in your working place every day during all the working hours? If John wanted her opinion on his music, he could have asked her at home. I think that if Mick Jagger was in the studio all the day, every day, because he was the new best friend of John Lennon they wouldn't have like it either. I think their complains were legitimate. But why they didn't do it more during that time? I don't know. It must because of John, not Yoko. They were afraid of John. Don't take me wrong. I don't blame Yoko for that. John was the one who dragged her to the studio and that must by why Paul complained to him, not her. Actually, Paul was, most of the times, very diplomatic with Yoko. Sometimes even coming in her defense more than one time during the recording of "Let it Be" (See the book: Get Back: The Unauthorized Chronicle of the Beatles' "Let It Be" Disaster by Doug Sulpy). George Harrison, I agree, was very nasty to her. By the way, George's affair with Ringo's wife was way after the break-up of th band. That didn't happen during that time. Hmmm. I have to disagree on this one. I thought we were talking about the public perception of Yoko. As far as I know, the Beatles NEVER blamed Yoko for the break-up of the band. And nowadays, most of the fans don’t blame her either. Only the general public who doesn’t know nothing of the Beatles’ history do.

And of course they didn’t like her on the studio. Like it or not, the studio was a working place. There were guests now and then in the recordings. Males and females. Yoko herself was a guest during the recording of the “Fool on the Hill”. There were parties there. And Neil and Mal were there employees, they were there to serve them, that’s why they were there.

Their complains was more because she was there all the time. Would you like the girlfriends or boyfriends of your workmates to be in your working place every day during all the working hours? If John wanted her opinion on his music, he could have asked her at home. I think that if Mick Jagger was in the studio all the day, every day, because he was the new best friend of John Lennon they wouldn’t have like it either. I think their complains were legitimate. But why they didn’t do it more during that time? I don’t know. It must because of John, not Yoko. They were afraid of John.

Don’t take me wrong. I don’t blame Yoko for that. John was the one who dragged her to the studio and that must by why Paul complained to him, not her. Actually, Paul was, most of the times, very diplomatic with Yoko. Sometimes even coming in her defense more than one time during the recording of “Let it Be” (See the book: Get Back: The Unauthorized Chronicle of the Beatles’ “Let It Be” Disaster by Doug Sulpy). George Harrison, I agree, was very nasty to her.

By the way, George’s affair with Ringo’s wife was way after the break-up of th band. That didn’t happen during that time.

]]> By: Cara http://thecurvature.com/2008/12/20/yoko-ono-a-feminist-analysis-part-1-the-ballad-of-john-and-yoko/#comment-9374 Cara Sun, 04 Jan 2009 22:46:30 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/?p=823#comment-9374 I have nothing to say to the comment above. But I just find it, it's wild inaccuracies, "sexism was okay then cause everyone was doing it" conclusions, and the huge bias in its thesis while berating me for my (actually slight and <i>admitted</i>) bias, to be endlessly amusing. I have nothing to say to the comment above. But I just find it, it’s wild inaccuracies, “sexism was okay then cause everyone was doing it” conclusions, and the huge bias in its thesis while berating me for my (actually slight and admitted) bias, to be endlessly amusing.

]]> By: cgaja http://thecurvature.com/2008/12/20/yoko-ono-a-feminist-analysis-part-1-the-ballad-of-john-and-yoko/#comment-9373 cgaja Sun, 04 Jan 2009 22:41:41 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/?p=823#comment-9373 You seem to have skewed several historical facts about the Beatles, jOHn,Paul and Yoko. You blame Paul for breaking up the Beatles, but not Yoko at all or JOhn. Seems you are as biased and intellectually dishonest as you claim Spitz to be. On one hand you say John wanted out long ago, but somehow because Paul takes over the reins from a man who was not interested in the band or physically or mentally able to keep it together it's his fault. Your illogical conclusions skew your thesis. John wants out so he brings Yoko into the studio to spew her valueless and untalented opinions to the greatest musicians in the world. She played piano, not very well. Her first husband was a very renowned concert pianist but she from all accounts was medicre at best. She had no concept or interest in rock or pop music and only took an interest once she met John. To blame anyone besides John and Yoko for the break is unbelievable. Paul just cared more about keeping the band together than the others. Ringo was marginalized because he was the least talented. As John said Ringo wasn't event he best drummer in the Beatles. Yoko was in it for the money, and went after Paul first and only went after John when she saw how messed up he was. She came to London with her second husband with the idea of making contact with the Beatles. When she grabbed the drug addicted John she made a deal with Tony that he would divorce her for a piece of the pie. She is no innocent and to pretend so either indicates that you are either biased and uninformed or dishonest. Dot's abortion was a tragedy because Dot wanted the baby because she loved Paul. Yoko's miscarriages weren't so tragic because she was on heroin and caused the miscarriages herself, besides she already had 30 or more abortions previously and that's why she couldn't carry a child to term. Yoko was in a mental institution for many years and tried to commit suicide several times. Besides Yoko didn't want the child because of any great love for John, she wanted his baby because he would then marry her or be committed to child support. Yoko and John were assholes much more so than the others. Bringing a bed into the studio? Please that's not reasonable or rational thats abusive and who could expect artists/musicians to be creative with that going on. You are very one sided. You also discount the times these men were living in. This is 50 years ago. Do you have no concept how much our culture has changed, or for that matter how different NYC is from Liverpool. To really bring any kind of intellectual value to your thesis you have to demonstrate the times and the cultural mores of the times and places the individuals were living. You ask for understanding of Yoko, but give none to the Beatles and especially Paul. You blame him for wanting what every 20 something male (let alone a rock-star) would have wanted from their women in 1960's England. A wife to stay at home have his children and to pursue his career with his band-mates. Not have an obnoxious untalented woman tell him how to write his or produce his records. You seem to have skewed several historical facts about the Beatles, jOHn,Paul and Yoko. You blame Paul for breaking up the Beatles, but not Yoko at all or JOhn. Seems you are as biased and intellectually dishonest as you claim Spitz to be. On one hand you say John wanted out long ago, but somehow because Paul takes over the reins from a man who was not interested in the band or physically or mentally able to keep it together it’s his fault. Your illogical conclusions skew your thesis. John wants out so he brings Yoko into the studio to spew her valueless and untalented opinions to the greatest musicians in the world. She played piano, not very well. Her first husband was a very renowned concert pianist but she from all accounts was medicre at best. She had no concept or interest in rock or pop music and only took an interest once she met John. To blame anyone besides John and Yoko for the break is unbelievable. Paul just cared more about keeping the band together than the others. Ringo was marginalized because he was the least talented. As John said Ringo wasn’t event he best drummer in the Beatles. Yoko was in it for the money, and went after Paul first and only went after John when she saw how messed up he was. She came to London with her second husband with the idea of making contact with the Beatles. When she grabbed the drug addicted John she made a deal with Tony that he would divorce her for a piece of the pie. She is no innocent and to pretend so either indicates that you are either biased and uninformed or dishonest.

Dot’s abortion was a tragedy because Dot wanted the baby because she loved Paul. Yoko’s miscarriages weren’t so tragic because she was on heroin and caused the miscarriages herself, besides she already had 30 or more abortions previously and that’s why she couldn’t carry a child to term. Yoko was in a mental institution for many years and tried to commit suicide several times. Besides Yoko didn’t want the child because of any great love for John, she wanted his baby because he would then marry her or be committed to child support.

Yoko and John were assholes much more so than the others. Bringing a bed into the studio? Please that’s not reasonable or rational thats abusive and who could expect artists/musicians to be creative with that going on. You are very one sided. You also discount the times these men were living in. This is 50 years ago. Do you have no concept how much our culture has changed, or for that matter how different NYC is from Liverpool. To really bring any kind of intellectual value to your thesis you have to demonstrate the times and the cultural mores of the times and places the individuals were living. You ask for understanding of Yoko, but give none to the Beatles and especially Paul. You blame him for wanting what every 20 something male (let alone a rock-star) would have wanted from their women in 1960’s England. A wife to stay at home have his children and to pursue his career with his band-mates. Not have an obnoxious untalented woman tell him how to write his or produce his records.

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