Comments on: The Problem with Hoping Rapists Will Be Raped http://thecurvature.com/2009/10/02/the-problem-with-hoping-rapists-will-be-raped/ Sun, 05 Feb 2012 14:47:57 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: On Prison Rape and Complacency : The Curvature http://thecurvature.com/2009/10/02/the-problem-with-hoping-rapists-will-be-raped/#comment-16651 On Prison Rape and Complacency : The Curvature Fri, 12 Mar 2010 18:56:12 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/?p=6632#comment-16651 [...] no one ever deserves to be raped, even if they are rapists themselves, and while the article rightly notes that corrections officers make up a majority of prison [...] [...] no one ever deserves to be raped, even if they are rapists themselves, and while the article rightly notes that corrections officers make up a majority of prison [...]

]]> By: V for Vegan: easyVegan.info » Blog Archive » Intersectionality ‘Round the Interwebs, No. 10: Feminist Dilemmas, Light Switches & Veg/an Vampires http://thecurvature.com/2009/10/02/the-problem-with-hoping-rapists-will-be-raped/#comment-15439 V for Vegan: easyVegan.info » Blog Archive » Intersectionality ‘Round the Interwebs, No. 10: Feminist Dilemmas, Light Switches & Veg/an Vampires Thu, 05 Nov 2009 00:16:00 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/?p=6632#comment-15439 [...] The Curvature: The Problem with Hoping Rapists Will Be Raped [...] [...] The Curvature: The Problem with Hoping Rapists Will Be Raped [...]

]]> By: Richard James http://thecurvature.com/2009/10/02/the-problem-with-hoping-rapists-will-be-raped/#comment-15108 Richard James Sun, 18 Oct 2009 19:20:31 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/?p=6632#comment-15108 I thank you very much for this post. You have made a very important point. We cannot genuinely and convincingly argue that rape is completely unacceptable while at the same time advocating that it should happen to some people. We must remember that rape is a crime even if it happens in prison, and prisons must do a much better job of preventing it. If we really believe that rapists should have physical component to their punishment, it should be as it was in the past, where rapists are given a prescribed number of lashes, professionally administered. That way, the right person gets exactly the punishment to which he is sentenced, and we are not relying on random punishments that are disprortionately handed out to those who are unlucky or physically weak. I do not mean to sound harsh, but, as a male myself, I often think that bringing back caning, whipping, or strapping (in addition to prison) as punishment for rape as was done in past times and is done in nations such as Singapore and Malaysia would be one of the best ways of deterring rape. I often think that if society is unwilling to flog men for abusing women, society is not doing all that it can to protect women. I thank you very much for this post. You have made a very important point. We cannot genuinely and convincingly argue that rape is completely unacceptable while at the same time advocating that it should happen to some people. We must remember that rape is a crime even if it happens in prison, and prisons must do a much better job of preventing it. If we really believe that rapists should have physical component to their punishment, it should be as it was in the past, where rapists are given a prescribed number of lashes, professionally administered. That way, the right person gets exactly the punishment to which he is sentenced, and we are not relying on random punishments that are disprortionately handed out to those who are unlucky or physically weak. I do not mean to sound harsh, but, as a male myself, I often think that bringing back caning, whipping, or strapping (in addition to prison) as punishment for rape as was done in past times and is done in nations such as Singapore and Malaysia would be one of the best ways of deterring rape. I often think that if society is unwilling to flog men for abusing women, society is not doing all that it can to protect women.

]]> By: Joshua http://thecurvature.com/2009/10/02/the-problem-with-hoping-rapists-will-be-raped/#comment-15028 Joshua Thu, 15 Oct 2009 15:12:32 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/?p=6632#comment-15028 The part of this post that was most novel to me was the connection between, "I hope he gets raped in prison," and revenge-rapes against women. My mind inherently recoils against the idea of a revenge-rape against a woman, but I find myself having to intellectualize my objection to the idea of revenge-raping a male rapist. I understand the reasons why it's wrong, but my emotional reaction isn't nearly as strong. I think that's probably at least in part because violence against men, by other men, is normalized in our culture, and sexual violence against men is not even supposed to be possible. Therefore, when a man is raped by another man in prison, it's NOT perceived as sexual violence in the same way that it would be if a man raped a woman, and it's perceived as simply another form of male-on-male violence, which is seen as perfectly normal and unremarkable. The part of this post that was most novel to me was the connection between, “I hope he gets raped in prison,” and revenge-rapes against women. My mind inherently recoils against the idea of a revenge-rape against a woman, but I find myself having to intellectualize my objection to the idea of revenge-raping a male rapist. I understand the reasons why it’s wrong, but my emotional reaction isn’t nearly as strong. I think that’s probably at least in part because violence against men, by other men, is normalized in our culture, and sexual violence against men is not even supposed to be possible. Therefore, when a man is raped by another man in prison, it’s NOT perceived as sexual violence in the same way that it would be if a man raped a woman, and it’s perceived as simply another form of male-on-male violence, which is seen as perfectly normal and unremarkable.

]]> By: Cara http://thecurvature.com/2009/10/02/the-problem-with-hoping-rapists-will-be-raped/#comment-14963 Cara Mon, 12 Oct 2009 16:45:34 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/?p=6632#comment-14963 Hmm. You know, I'm quite sure that male rape victims face pretty much the same ill effects as female rape victims. Obviously there is some variance in according with our society's enforced gender roles, but the fear, shame, self-blame, etc. are all fairly universal. And while I can only imagine, I feel as though prison would be a particularly terrifying place to be raped, as you are literally locked in a room with your abuser for a rather long period of time. So, while I agree that all rape victims have different experiences, and that being raped does not give you insight into the experiences and pain of all other rape survivors, I believe that it's incredibly important to not try to "rank" the suffering of different rape victims. As someone who herself has been told that her rape didn't count as a "real rape" because it wasn't "bad enough," I think it's a dangerous, hurtful and triggering road to go down. Hmm. You know, I’m quite sure that male rape victims face pretty much the same ill effects as female rape victims. Obviously there is some variance in according with our society’s enforced gender roles, but the fear, shame, self-blame, etc. are all fairly universal. And while I can only imagine, I feel as though prison would be a particularly terrifying place to be raped, as you are literally locked in a room with your abuser for a rather long period of time.

So, while I agree that all rape victims have different experiences, and that being raped does not give you insight into the experiences and pain of all other rape survivors, I believe that it’s incredibly important to not try to “rank” the suffering of different rape victims. As someone who herself has been told that her rape didn’t count as a “real rape” because it wasn’t “bad enough,” I think it’s a dangerous, hurtful and triggering road to go down.

]]> By: orlando http://thecurvature.com/2009/10/02/the-problem-with-hoping-rapists-will-be-raped/#comment-14949 orlando Mon, 12 Oct 2009 08:48:22 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/?p=6632#comment-14949 A lesser reason I would offer to avoid this kind of comparison is that it is a miscasting of the dynamics that operate between men and women in our world to suggest it would be a real comparison. If I may draw on Polanski as an example, because we are familiar with something of the nature of his crime and his victim's circumstances: whatever another man were to do to him in the context of a prison sentence, he would never experience the fear, the incomprehension, the misplaced sense of guilt, the public condemnation, the complete revision of the direction of her life and the way she would respond to all subsequent experiences that his victim must have gone through. In short, it would be an insult to her if he were to think he could approximate the suffering he inflicted on her. A lesser reason I would offer to avoid this kind of comparison is that it is a miscasting of the dynamics that operate between men and women in our world to suggest it would be a real comparison. If I may draw on Polanski as an example, because we are familiar with something of the nature of his crime and his victim’s circumstances: whatever another man were to do to him in the context of a prison sentence, he would never experience the fear, the incomprehension, the misplaced sense of guilt, the public condemnation, the complete revision of the direction of her life and the way she would respond to all subsequent experiences that his victim must have gone through. In short, it would be an insult to her if he were to think he could approximate the suffering he inflicted on her.

]]> By: Weekly News Round-Up, 10/11 « Women’s Health News http://thecurvature.com/2009/10/02/the-problem-with-hoping-rapists-will-be-raped/#comment-14921 Weekly News Round-Up, 10/11 « Women’s Health News Sun, 11 Oct 2009 17:09:15 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/?p=6632#comment-14921 [...] at Womanist Musings has a bunch of good links in her round-up, including this post from Cara at The Curvature on why hoping a rapist gets raped in jail is fundamentally not an anti-rape position. I also like [...] [...] at Womanist Musings has a bunch of good links in her round-up, including this post from Cara at The Curvature on why hoping a rapist gets raped in jail is fundamentally not an anti-rape position. I also like [...]

]]> By: sarah http://thecurvature.com/2009/10/02/the-problem-with-hoping-rapists-will-be-raped/#comment-14835 sarah Tue, 06 Oct 2009 23:14:35 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/?p=6632#comment-14835 I'll apologize for the terms i used - I am sorry if I offended anyone. I understand that there are many forms of rape. I was reffering to my heterosexual x going to prison and his mother's worries and fears. And I was also reffering to the oncological exams from my surgeon and his whole entourage of interns - sorry. I personally love Andrew Vachss and his whole mission in life. There are people who really want to make a difference. I admire that man. We are each only one person - the question is - How do we each make a difference. Speaking out is one - Publicly. If we keep hiding - what good will it do? Rape the act - like you are saying is wrong. I have forgiven my x for what he did and what he put my kids thru. I am no longer afraid of him. But - his actions were wrong - along with a lot of others. The big question to me is - How do we stop producing these sorts of people in our society? And how do we effectively deal with them when they do act out? How do we somehow prevent the perpetuation one way or another, of this sort of behavior? It's all about saying NO! No to our kids who act out in really bad ways, no to our spouses or aquaintances, friends = anyone who is exhibitting cruel behaviors. Rape isn't sex - it's power and cruelty - because the CAN. I’ll apologize for the terms i used – I am sorry if I offended anyone. I understand that there are many forms of rape. I was reffering to my heterosexual x going to prison and his mother’s worries and fears. And I was also reffering to the oncological exams from my surgeon and his whole entourage of interns – sorry.
I personally love Andrew Vachss and his whole mission in life. There are people who really want to make a difference. I admire that man.
We are each only one person – the question is – How do we each make a difference.
Speaking out is one – Publicly. If we keep hiding – what good will it do?
Rape the act – like you are saying is wrong.
I have forgiven my x for what he did and what he put my kids thru. I am no longer afraid of him. But – his actions were wrong – along with a lot of others. The big question to me is – How do we stop producing these sorts of people in our society? And how do we effectively deal with them when they do act out? How do we somehow prevent the perpetuation one way or another, of this sort of behavior?
It’s all about saying NO! No to our kids who act out in really bad ways, no to our spouses or aquaintances, friends = anyone who is exhibitting cruel behaviors. Rape isn’t sex – it’s power and cruelty – because the CAN.

]]> By: Cara http://thecurvature.com/2009/10/02/the-problem-with-hoping-rapists-will-be-raped/#comment-14831 Cara Tue, 06 Oct 2009 22:15:26 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/?p=6632#comment-14831 Sarah, I'm very sorry to hear about what your ex did to you, and I thank you for sharing your story here. But as I said in the post: my point is not that we should take the "high ground" and care about the humanity of each and every individual rapist and try to see the good in them, have some mercy, whatever. (If others feel they need to do that to heal, that is of course alright, too, but that is not where I'm coming from.) I can understand not really caring what happens to your own rapist or feeling any sympathy for them after the horror they have put you through. What I am talking about is rape <i>culture</i> and the fact that rapes like the one that you endured, and the one that I endured, and the ones that countless others have endured, are not going to stop until we start seeing rape as inherently wrong for what it is, and not for the goodness of the people it is done to. I'm also extremely uncomfortable with you referring to anal rape as "getting it up the butt." I would ask you to remember that rape is not something to be flippant about, and that other rape survivors are reading here -- including those who have been anally raped and who might be extremely upset and triggered by such language -- and to not use it if you're going to comment again. Sarah,

I’m very sorry to hear about what your ex did to you, and I thank you for sharing your story here.

But as I said in the post: my point is not that we should take the “high ground” and care about the humanity of each and every individual rapist and try to see the good in them, have some mercy, whatever. (If others feel they need to do that to heal, that is of course alright, too, but that is not where I’m coming from.) I can understand not really caring what happens to your own rapist or feeling any sympathy for them after the horror they have put you through. What I am talking about is rape culture and the fact that rapes like the one that you endured, and the one that I endured, and the ones that countless others have endured, are not going to stop until we start seeing rape as inherently wrong for what it is, and not for the goodness of the people it is done to.

I’m also extremely uncomfortable with you referring to anal rape as “getting it up the butt.” I would ask you to remember that rape is not something to be flippant about, and that other rape survivors are reading here — including those who have been anally raped and who might be extremely upset and triggered by such language — and to not use it if you’re going to comment again.

]]> By: sarah http://thecurvature.com/2009/10/02/the-problem-with-hoping-rapists-will-be-raped/#comment-14828 sarah Tue, 06 Oct 2009 20:40:59 +0000 http://thecurvature.com/?p=6632#comment-14828 [<strong>Trigger Warning</strong> -- Mod.] Hmmmmm, I had to sit in the guardian ad litem court ordered counselor's office for my two children, and listen to my ex mother in law cry, worrying that her son, who raped me in front of My son when i served him with divorce papers, would possibly get it up the butt, because he dropped dirty on probation from cocaine. He got sentenced in the morning and I asked the judge to give him work release for a year, so that I could get child support and move my kids away. The judge granted it. A guy came outside after the sentencing and said he represented all the guys in the court room. They all wanted me to know that not all guys were like that. We got divorced that afternoon with him in handcuffs. His divorce lawyer came up and apologized to me for the divorce. X never told him about the criminal stuff. I shoulda been tougher, but I just wanted away from him. He screwed up the work release and sat his worthless butt in jail for 10 months. Then was out for about 9. Then he did the drop dirty with the coke. Off he went to prison, for 5 years, and I got ovarian cancer at the same time. Do you think I f...ing cared whether or not he got it up the butt? I had oncologists with everything up everything at that point. He just needed to go away. Karma is what happens. God decided he needed to be in prison and whatever happened was for God's reasons. I never should have meddled and let the judge send him for the 10 years he initially wanted to. Hind sight lol. [Trigger Warning -- Mod.]

Hmmmmm,
I had to sit in the guardian ad litem court ordered counselor’s office for my two children, and listen to my ex mother in law cry, worrying that her son, who raped me in front of My son when i served him with divorce papers, would possibly get it up the butt, because he dropped dirty on probation from cocaine.
He got sentenced in the morning and I asked the judge to give him work release for a year, so that I could get child support and move my kids away. The judge granted it. A guy came outside after the sentencing and said he represented all the guys in the court room. They all wanted me to know that not all guys were like that.
We got divorced that afternoon with him in handcuffs. His divorce lawyer came up and apologized to me for the divorce. X never told him about the criminal stuff. I shoulda been tougher, but I just wanted away from him.
He screwed up the work release and sat his worthless butt in jail for 10 months. Then was out for about 9. Then he did the drop dirty with the coke. Off he went to prison, for 5 years, and I got ovarian cancer at the same time. Do you think I f…ing cared whether or not he got it up the butt?
I had oncologists with everything up everything at that point. He just needed to go away.
Karma is what happens. God decided he needed to be in prison and whatever happened was for God’s reasons. I never should have meddled and let the judge send him for the 10 years he initially wanted to.
Hind sight lol.

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