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	<title>Comments on: NY Bill Allows Sex Trafficking Victims to Clear Prostitution Convictions</title>
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		<title>By: On the Label &#8220;Feminist&#8221; &#171; SWOP Colorado</title>
		<link>http://thecurvature.com/2010/06/28/ny-bill-allows-sex-trafficking-victims-to-clear-prostitution-convictions/#comment-19280</link>
		<dc:creator>On the Label &#8220;Feminist&#8221; &#171; SWOP Colorado</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Aug 2010 02:29:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecurvature.com/?p=8876#comment-19280</guid>
		<description>[...] all reasonable in light of the way many feminists, often the most visible and mainstream feminists, erase us (as I commented on earlier), dehumanize us, patronize us, etc. (and do the same thing to a number [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] all reasonable in light of the way many feminists, often the most visible and mainstream feminists, erase us (as I commented on earlier), dehumanize us, patronize us, etc. (and do the same thing to a number [...]</p>
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		<title>By: RD</title>
		<link>http://thecurvature.com/2010/06/28/ny-bill-allows-sex-trafficking-victims-to-clear-prostitution-convictions/#comment-18914</link>
		<dc:creator>RD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jul 2010 14:53:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecurvature.com/?p=8876#comment-18914</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I don’t know why I’m bothering to respond to you since you obviously have no interest in having a real conversation with me, or in fact in expressing anything but rage now that your triggers have been transgressed.&lt;/i&gt;

Wow.  Do you even know what the word &quot;trigger&quot; means, cuz it doesn&#039;t sound like it from that reply.  Some sex educator you must be.

&lt;i&gt;But for the record, (a) I’m not assuming anything about what sex workers will or will not be able to do; (b) I’m not asserting that any victims of trafficking are lying.&lt;/i&gt;

Really.  So how is this going to &quot;skew statistics&quot; if there is no lying involved, unless you just want to paint accurate statistics as skewed.  Me, I don&#039;t think statistics are all that important compared to women&#039;s lives, especially the lives of women who have been trafficked and sex workers.

&lt;i&gt;My position is that I’m in favor of this law, and I’m glad that sex workers will have more options, especially because I can imagine few nightmares worse than being coerced into sex work. However, I suspect that this law will not only increase reported incidences of trafficking, but that those incidences will not always be accurate. This is an acceptable cost for the law, but it is a real cost, mainly paid in knowledge about the landscape of sex work.&lt;/i&gt;

That&#039;s good at least.  Shows you are at least a somewhat decent human being, but again, you are still calling trafficking victims liars.  &quot;Reported incidences of trafficking will not always be accurate&quot; under this law?  This is a very victim-centered law.  So again, you are calling trafficking victims liars, just dressing it up in fancier language.

&lt;i&gt;Oh, and also? Considering that ridiculously extreme, absurdly conservative notions about trafficking are routinely used to attack and restrict consensual adult sexual expression&lt;/i&gt;

When that happens, I argue against it.  I have done this very publicly on numerous occasions, especially when the laws in questions are harmful to victims of trafficking also.

 &lt;i&gt;— I mean, some of my sex worker friends in Chicago have even described trafficking as a “red herring” —&lt;/i&gt;

Then they are assholes, scum, who I am ashamed to say may even be working for sex workers rights but are shooting themselves in the foot in the process.  I wish I could say they are not part of the movement I am part of, but broadly speaking, they probably are.

&lt;i&gt;I would think that a consenting adult sex worker would be a little more concerned about laws that give so much power to the trafficking crusade without acknowledging the right of consenting adult sex workers to engage in their profession.&lt;/i&gt;

Hi, I don&#039;t think we&#039;ve met and I don&#039;t think you know anything about my story, my history, and my current sex work employment status.  So stop making assumptions.

Furthermore I DO ACKNOWLEDGE THE RIGHTS OF CONSENTING SEX WORKERS TO CONTINUE IN THEIR PROFESSIONS.

Maybe you could point out how you think this gives more power to the &quot;trafficking lobby.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I don’t know why I’m bothering to respond to you since you obviously have no interest in having a real conversation with me, or in fact in expressing anything but rage now that your triggers have been transgressed.</i></p>
<p>Wow.  Do you even know what the word &#8220;trigger&#8221; means, cuz it doesn&#8217;t sound like it from that reply.  Some sex educator you must be.</p>
<p><i>But for the record, (a) I’m not assuming anything about what sex workers will or will not be able to do; (b) I’m not asserting that any victims of trafficking are lying.</i></p>
<p>Really.  So how is this going to &#8220;skew statistics&#8221; if there is no lying involved, unless you just want to paint accurate statistics as skewed.  Me, I don&#8217;t think statistics are all that important compared to women&#8217;s lives, especially the lives of women who have been trafficked and sex workers.</p>
<p><i>My position is that I’m in favor of this law, and I’m glad that sex workers will have more options, especially because I can imagine few nightmares worse than being coerced into sex work. However, I suspect that this law will not only increase reported incidences of trafficking, but that those incidences will not always be accurate. This is an acceptable cost for the law, but it is a real cost, mainly paid in knowledge about the landscape of sex work.</i></p>
<p>That&#8217;s good at least.  Shows you are at least a somewhat decent human being, but again, you are still calling trafficking victims liars.  &#8220;Reported incidences of trafficking will not always be accurate&#8221; under this law?  This is a very victim-centered law.  So again, you are calling trafficking victims liars, just dressing it up in fancier language.</p>
<p><i>Oh, and also? Considering that ridiculously extreme, absurdly conservative notions about trafficking are routinely used to attack and restrict consensual adult sexual expression</i></p>
<p>When that happens, I argue against it.  I have done this very publicly on numerous occasions, especially when the laws in questions are harmful to victims of trafficking also.</p>
<p> <i>— I mean, some of my sex worker friends in Chicago have even described trafficking as a “red herring” —</i></p>
<p>Then they are assholes, scum, who I am ashamed to say may even be working for sex workers rights but are shooting themselves in the foot in the process.  I wish I could say they are not part of the movement I am part of, but broadly speaking, they probably are.</p>
<p><i>I would think that a consenting adult sex worker would be a little more concerned about laws that give so much power to the trafficking crusade without acknowledging the right of consenting adult sex workers to engage in their profession.</i></p>
<p>Hi, I don&#8217;t think we&#8217;ve met and I don&#8217;t think you know anything about my story, my history, and my current sex work employment status.  So stop making assumptions.</p>
<p>Furthermore I DO ACKNOWLEDGE THE RIGHTS OF CONSENTING SEX WORKERS TO CONTINUE IN THEIR PROFESSIONS.</p>
<p>Maybe you could point out how you think this gives more power to the &#8220;trafficking lobby.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Clarisse Thorn</title>
		<link>http://thecurvature.com/2010/06/28/ny-bill-allows-sex-trafficking-victims-to-clear-prostitution-convictions/#comment-18871</link>
		<dc:creator>Clarisse Thorn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jul 2010 10:19:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecurvature.com/?p=8876#comment-18871</guid>
		<description>Oh, and also?  Considering that ridiculously extreme, absurdly conservative notions about trafficking are routinely used to attack and restrict consensual adult sexual expression -- I mean, some of my sex worker friends in Chicago have even described trafficking as a &quot;red herring&quot; -- I would think that a consenting adult sex worker would be a little more concerned about laws that give so much power to the trafficking crusade without acknowledging the right of consenting adult sex workers to engage in their profession.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and also?  Considering that ridiculously extreme, absurdly conservative notions about trafficking are routinely used to attack and restrict consensual adult sexual expression &#8212; I mean, some of my sex worker friends in Chicago have even described trafficking as a &#8220;red herring&#8221; &#8212; I would think that a consenting adult sex worker would be a little more concerned about laws that give so much power to the trafficking crusade without acknowledging the right of consenting adult sex workers to engage in their profession.</p>
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		<title>By: Clarisse Thorn</title>
		<link>http://thecurvature.com/2010/06/28/ny-bill-allows-sex-trafficking-victims-to-clear-prostitution-convictions/#comment-18869</link>
		<dc:creator>Clarisse Thorn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jul 2010 10:06:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecurvature.com/?p=8876#comment-18869</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know why I&#039;m bothering to respond to you since you obviously have no interest in having a real conversation with me, or in fact in expressing anything but rage now that your triggers have been transgressed.  But for the record, (a) I&#039;m not assuming anything about what sex workers will or will not be able to do; (b) I&#039;m not asserting that any victims of trafficking are lying.

My position is that I&#039;m in favor of this law, and I&#039;m glad that sex workers will have more options, especially because I can imagine few nightmares worse than being coerced into sex work.  However, I suspect that this law will not only increase reported incidences of trafficking, but that those incidences will not always be accurate.  This is an acceptable cost for the law, but it is a real cost, mainly paid in knowledge about the landscape of sex work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know why I&#8217;m bothering to respond to you since you obviously have no interest in having a real conversation with me, or in fact in expressing anything but rage now that your triggers have been transgressed.  But for the record, (a) I&#8217;m not assuming anything about what sex workers will or will not be able to do; (b) I&#8217;m not asserting that any victims of trafficking are lying.</p>
<p>My position is that I&#8217;m in favor of this law, and I&#8217;m glad that sex workers will have more options, especially because I can imagine few nightmares worse than being coerced into sex work.  However, I suspect that this law will not only increase reported incidences of trafficking, but that those incidences will not always be accurate.  This is an acceptable cost for the law, but it is a real cost, mainly paid in knowledge about the landscape of sex work.</p>
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		<title>By: RD</title>
		<link>http://thecurvature.com/2010/06/28/ny-bill-allows-sex-trafficking-victims-to-clear-prostitution-convictions/#comment-18862</link>
		<dc:creator>RD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jul 2010 00:20:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecurvature.com/?p=8876#comment-18862</guid>
		<description>By the way it is awfully obnoxious for a SEX EDUCATOR with probably no relevant experience to weigh in on issues of trafficking OR sex worker rights.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way it is awfully obnoxious for a SEX EDUCATOR with probably no relevant experience to weigh in on issues of trafficking OR sex worker rights.</p>
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		<title>By: RD</title>
		<link>http://thecurvature.com/2010/06/28/ny-bill-allows-sex-trafficking-victims-to-clear-prostitution-convictions/#comment-18861</link>
		<dc:creator>RD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jul 2010 00:18:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecurvature.com/?p=8876#comment-18861</guid>
		<description>You both are just assuming that sex workers who did NOT experience force, fraud, or coercion, who were not trafficked, will now be able to clear convictions using this law, messing up your precious &quot;statistics.&quot;  Where do you get off with that assumption, seriously?  I too think it would be a good thing for all sex workers to not get convictions, but this is a law benefiting victims of trafficking.  And to tell someone who was a victim of trafficking that s/he is lying?  Is seriously fucked up.  Can you not see that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You both are just assuming that sex workers who did NOT experience force, fraud, or coercion, who were not trafficked, will now be able to clear convictions using this law, messing up your precious &#8220;statistics.&#8221;  Where do you get off with that assumption, seriously?  I too think it would be a good thing for all sex workers to not get convictions, but this is a law benefiting victims of trafficking.  And to tell someone who was a victim of trafficking that s/he is lying?  Is seriously fucked up.  Can you not see that?</p>
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		<title>By: RD</title>
		<link>http://thecurvature.com/2010/06/28/ny-bill-allows-sex-trafficking-victims-to-clear-prostitution-convictions/#comment-18860</link>
		<dc:creator>RD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jul 2010 00:14:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecurvature.com/?p=8876#comment-18860</guid>
		<description>Oh, as someone who has &quot;worked with&quot; sex workers (how about sex trafficking victims), you must know so much more about this than me, seeing as I&#039;ve been a sex worker for a number of years and have experienced force/coercion in relation to the industry before I was a sex worker from someone who was a pimp, idk if he would self-ID that way or not but it&#039;s how he operated.  Yes, you and Aaron must have a much more valid view of things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, as someone who has &#8220;worked with&#8221; sex workers (how about sex trafficking victims), you must know so much more about this than me, seeing as I&#8217;ve been a sex worker for a number of years and have experienced force/coercion in relation to the industry before I was a sex worker from someone who was a pimp, idk if he would self-ID that way or not but it&#8217;s how he operated.  Yes, you and Aaron must have a much more valid view of things.</p>
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		<title>By: Clarisse Thorn</title>
		<link>http://thecurvature.com/2010/06/28/ny-bill-allows-sex-trafficking-victims-to-clear-prostitution-convictions/#comment-18830</link>
		<dc:creator>Clarisse Thorn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jun 2010 15:01:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecurvature.com/?p=8876#comment-18830</guid>
		<description>For what it&#039;s worth, my initial response -- as someone who&#039;s worked with sex workers and who has spent the last year in Africa working directly with the most underprivileged populations in the world (literally) -- was pretty much along the same lines as Aaron&#039;s.  Like him, I don&#039;t think it&#039;s bad for more sex workers to get out of convictions (being as I think sex work should be legal anyway), but it would be nice to think that we could get accurate statistical information about how the sex industry actually works across the USA someday, and this is exactly the wrong way to do that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For what it&#8217;s worth, my initial response &#8212; as someone who&#8217;s worked with sex workers and who has spent the last year in Africa working directly with the most underprivileged populations in the world (literally) &#8212; was pretty much along the same lines as Aaron&#8217;s.  Like him, I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s bad for more sex workers to get out of convictions (being as I think sex work should be legal anyway), but it would be nice to think that we could get accurate statistical information about how the sex industry actually works across the USA someday, and this is exactly the wrong way to do that.</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron</title>
		<link>http://thecurvature.com/2010/06/28/ny-bill-allows-sex-trafficking-victims-to-clear-prostitution-convictions/#comment-18817</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jun 2010 20:36:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecurvature.com/?p=8876#comment-18817</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the link.  To my eyes, the standards don&#039;t look too unreasonably demanding, but I&#039;m certainly not a lawyer, so I&#039;m never confident in my own judgments of such things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the link.  To my eyes, the standards don&#8217;t look too unreasonably demanding, but I&#8217;m certainly not a lawyer, so I&#8217;m never confident in my own judgments of such things.</p>
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		<title>By: Sienna Baskin</title>
		<link>http://thecurvature.com/2010/06/28/ny-bill-allows-sex-trafficking-victims-to-clear-prostitution-convictions/#comment-18816</link>
		<dc:creator>Sienna Baskin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jun 2010 20:26:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecurvature.com/?p=8876#comment-18816</guid>
		<description>Thank you, Cara, for your sensitive reporting on this issue! We hope the bill will be a model for other states.  For readers, the text of the bill is here:
http://open.nysenate.gov/legislation/api/1.0/html/bill/S4429.
Those bringing motions would need to prove they are victims of trafficking as defined under state or federal law.  Please get in touch if you would like to do further advocacy on this issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, Cara, for your sensitive reporting on this issue! We hope the bill will be a model for other states.  For readers, the text of the bill is here:<br />
<a href="http://open.nysenate.gov/legislation/api/1.0/html/bill/S4429" rel="nofollow">http://open.nysenate.gov/legislation/api/1.0/html/bill/S4429</a>.<br />
Those bringing motions would need to prove they are victims of trafficking as defined under state or federal law.  Please get in touch if you would like to do further advocacy on this issue.</p>
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